VAT Status post Brexit

[nortada]

I suppose Greece is easy, You should have your DEKPA and if you leave or left the area or the EU the log should have been stamped as required. I do think your worry is unnecessary.
The VAT has only to be paid once within the EU unless the boat is sold on between businesses where the VAT would be claimed back on the VAT Tax Return.
Once it has gone in to private hands it can't return in to VAT status unless a VAT registered business buys it and is then put up for sale at some later point, this would be a crazy situation that no sane person would do. A private person cannot put it back in to VAT status with in the EU.
The initial bill of sale showing the VAT paid with in the EU is all that is required no matter how many owners the boat has in the future. It's the boat that is taxable not the person.

Very good summary.

 

[lw395]

Very good summary.

But full of errors!

 

[sailaboutvic]

But full of errors!

Inlighten us where the errors are

 

[lw395]

Sorry, typed a reply earlier but the forum swallowed it.
Apart from the bad grammar making the post open to interpretation, it is quite possible for a private seller to lose the VAT paid status of a boat by exporting it or selling it abroad.
It's perfectly possible for an individual to make a boat 'VAT paid' by importing it.
It's not the boat itself which is taxable, it's the act of selling it or importing it.
The original VAT invoice shows the boat was originally sold VAT paid in the EU, it can be negated by being sold abroad, which includes for instance Jersey. You really need chain of ownership from when VAT was paid.

It's best to get specific advice for your individual circumstances, don't rely on some bloke on the internet whose sentences are not even coherent.

 

[nortada]

Sorry, typed a reply earlier but the forum swallowed it.
Apart from the bad grammar making the post open to interpretation, it is quite possible for a private seller to lose the VAT paid status of a boat by exporting it or selling it abroad.
It's perfectly possible for an individual to make a boat 'VAT paid' by importing it.
It's not the boat itself which is taxable, it's the act of selling it or importing it.
The original VAT invoice shows the boat was originally sold VAT paid in the EU, it can be negated by being sold abroad, which includes for instance Jersey. You really need chain of ownership from when VAT was paid.

It's best to get specific advice for your individual circumstances, don't rely on some bloke on the internet whose sentences are not even coherent.

Pray advise, from where are you are going to get this specific advice on VAT post Brexit

I am sure the rest of us are all agog!

As a bloke on the internet, who has been chasing answers for the past 3 years (yes, on T2L prior to July 2016), I think I can hold my own with most (including misguided) authorities on T2L.

Rather than the RYA or CA, much of my information comes direct from discussions with the Portuguese Authorities and HMRC, who recognise possible post Brexit problems but await definitive advice - they choose not to guess.

You may recall, before the drift setting in, getting a T2L was the original subject of this thread. Do you have a T2L or are you planning to get one?

Until Brexit is a reality, apart from point scoring, I think this subject has been done to death.:ambivalence::sleeping:

I, for one, like many of his submissions, found Grumpygit’s summary useful and coherent. Others may wish to comment?

I trust my grammar meets the standards you require

Possibly the forum knew what it was doing when it swallowed your first attempt:encouragement:

 

[sailaboutvic]

Sorry, typed a reply earlier but the forum swallowed it.
Apart from the bad grammar making the post open to interpretation, it is quite possible for a private seller to lose the VAT paid status of a boat by exporting it or selling it abroad.
It's perfectly possible for an individual to make a boat 'VAT paid' by importing it.
It's not the boat itself which is taxable, it's the act of selling it or importing it.
The original VAT invoice shows the boat was originally sold VAT paid in the EU, it can be negated by being sold abroad, which includes for instance Jersey. You really need chain of ownership from when VAT was paid.

It's best to get specific advice for your individual circumstances, don't rely on some bloke on the internet whose sentences are not even coherent.

This thread as nothing to do with how well someone Grammer is or how well they can spell,
Although I am British, born in London my grammar and spelling is as bad as it gets grumpygits on the other hand may not be Bristish but his opinion is valued as much as anyone else.
I suggest people should keep personal insults to them self and if you can't understand a posting then just move on.

 

[grumpygit]

Sorry, typed a reply earlier but the forum swallowed it.
Apart from the bad grammar making the post open to interpretation, it is quite possible for a private seller to lose the VAT paid status of a boat by exporting it or selling it abroad.
It's perfectly possible for an individual to make a boat 'VAT paid' by importing it.
It's not the boat itself which is taxable, it's the act of selling it or importing it.
The original VAT invoice shows the boat was originally sold VAT paid in the EU, it can be negated by being sold abroad, which includes for instance Jersey. You really need chain of ownership from when VAT was paid.

It's best to get specific advice for your individual circumstances, don't rely on some bloke on the internet whose sentences are not even coherent.

Sorry sir, must do better next time sir.

I'm not sure specifically what rattled your cage but I do take offence of being ridiculed by you in such a way. All you have accomplished is you coming across as some sort of snotty nosed narcissist.

Myself or anyone else on this forum, or any other forum for that matter should not be trolled in this way. It's just not in the spirit of forums, the platform should be used for discussion and enlightenment and if you don't agree question the post and please do not attack the author.

Remind me, where are all these errors that you mention, please be specific? Apart from import/export which was not part of my post I can't see anything fresh.

 

[macd]

How do we prove the boat was in the EU on B day

How indeed. Yet the EU28 requires an owner to have evidence for date and location in order for their boat to be "deemed VAT-paid by virtue of age". (Different qualifying dates apply to different countries, depending on when they joined the EU.) So there's no reason at all to assume a similar test won't be applied regarding Brexit.

 

[sailaboutvic]

How indeed. Yet the EU28 requires an owner to have evidence for date and location in order for their boat to be "deemed VAT-paid by virtue of age". (Different qualifying dates apply to different countries, depending on when they joined the EU.) So there's no reason at all to assume a similar test won't be applied regarding Brexit.

Mac that fine if one uses marina , in our case what are we expected to Keep? Food receipt? The odd few lts of fuel

 

[macd]

Mac that fine if one uses marina , in our case what are we expected to Keep? Food receipt? The odd few lts of fuel

Just pointing out that the very requirement you thought unrealistic has, repeatedly, been imposed in the past. Which surely means there's no reason it couldn't be imposed in the future. I'm not saying that such a measure will be imposed, but it certainly could be.

(For what it's worth I've always thought it grossly unreasonable that a boat must have been in the EU on one specific date in its entire history (quite apart from the problems of proving it). But it happened.)

 

[sailaboutvic]

Just pointing out that the very requirement you thought unrealistic has, repeatedly, been imposed in the past. Which surely means there's no reason it couldn't be imposed in the future. I'm not saying that such a measure will be imposed, but it certainly could be.

(For what it's worth I've always thought it grossly unreasonable that a boat must have been in the EU on one specific date in its entire history (quite apart from the problems of proving it). But it happened.)

Just after I wrote my reply I remember I have a valid DEPKA which I not check out on when I let Greece in Nov , maybe that will come in handy

 

[macd]

Just after I wrote my reply I remember I have a valid DEPKA which I not check out on when I let Greece in Nov , maybe that will come in handy

Our old friend, VAT Notice No8, suggests the following documents would meet the need: receipt for mooring; receipt for harbour dues; dry dock records. Clearly a yard or marina receipt would fulfill the same purpose.

Equally clearly, receipts aren't always easy to come by in Greece :ambivalence:
Still, I imagine that most yards/marinas would be prepared to declare in writing that they'd stored your boat for a single day.

 

[dunedin]

Mac that fine if one uses marina , in our case what are we expected to Keep? Food receipt? The odd few lts of fuel

In this instance I might be tempted to go for a night in a marina to get a receipt, and take a couple of pictures.

 

[Mistroma]

Just after I wrote my reply I remember I have a valid DEPKA which I not check out on when I let Greece in Nov , maybe that will come in handy

I thought about the DEKPA as well and was also going to try for a proper receipt from the yard for a period before and after end of March. I would expect some hassle getting a receipt for the full amount I paid (yes, it's the law and I should insist) but would accept something covering March and April out of the water.

I had planned to get this receipt anyway to prove the boat was stored ashore and not "in use" to provide some protection regarding the new cruising tax. I won't be back in Greece early enough to avoid a possible fine if it does get underway on 1st April.

I will also keep any receipts I can get for a stopover in the nearest town quay after launching. I'm obviously on the same wavelength a macd. Probably all a waste of time but zero cost and easy to do.

I doubt anyone would carry out any investigation and simply take Vic's DEKPA and later receipts from Greece or Italy as an indication he had been somewhere in the EU. Of course the same DEKPA might also be used to indicate he owes a several months of the cruising tax if he returns to Greece at the end of the season because he didn't leave (win some, lose some ).

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think Greece as lost out on my cash for a while Mike , if the tax comes in , if not we might sail back after a visit to Malta then Italy , although I could do with it coming in to give me the push we need to go back to the south of France , been some years since we been there .
I got the DEKPA stamp before we left in Nov ofcause if we did happen to go back and the tax was in we just bin it anyway .
I really can see any one of us having any problem with vat after B day what ever we read here ,

 

[cloud7]

Been following this with interest:
1: Am I picking this up right that RYA is saying after Brexit a uk vat paid boat , will lose its status in the 27 EU.
2: That you would be as well to buy a new boat and leave uk after Brexit without uk vat paid.
3: Because on returning to uk you would have to pay uk vat.
4: You sail in the 27 EU for 18 months
5: Sail out of EU ( Canaries for winter as example ) and clock starts again.
I have got this right
Thks

 

[sailaboutvic]

Been following this with interest:
1: Am I picking this up right that RYA is saying after Brexit a uk vat paid boat , will lose its status in the 27 EU.
2: That you would be as well to buy a new boat and leave uk after Brexit without uk vat paid.
3: Because on returning to uk you would have to pay uk vat.
4: You sail in the 27 EU for 18 months
5: Sail out of EU ( Canaries for winter as example ) and clock starts again.
I have got this right
Thks

The fact is no one knows so for now don't worry about it .

 

[macd]

Been following this with interest:
1: Am I picking this up right that RYA is saying after Brexit a uk vat paid boat , will lose its status in the 27 EU.
I have got this right
Thks

Possibly, if there's no deal**; almost certainly not, in the short term at least, if there is a deal anything like the one on the table. In that case, boaty VAT and related issues will no doubt be part of the 'future relationship' negotiations. (Those of a tender disposition should look away now: these negotiations would make the ones so far seem simple. And interesting.)

** but also, very possibly not. See what future tax academics will no doubt refer to as "The Italian Conundrum", first defined in Vic's post #49.

 

[grumpygit]

Possibly, if there's no deal**; almost certainly not, in the short term at least, if there is a deal anything like the one on the table. In that case, boaty VAT and related issues will no doubt be part of the 'future relationship' negotiations. (Those of a tender disposition should look away now: these negotiations would make the ones so far seem simple. And interesting.)

** but also, very possibly not. See what future tax academics will no doubt refer to as "The Italian Conundrum", first defined in Vic's post #49.

My early days of sailing were done in home waters so I have no idea how HM Customs treated boats wanting to go abroad (I'm sure I will) before the relaxation of the European border crossings.
In those dark days for instance UK aircraft had to have a Temporary Export Licence which had to be rubber stamped by a custom official every time it went out of the UK and lets say into Europe, then rubber stamped back in upon it's return. This was accepted by the other countries so the VAT issue of a UK registered plane never arose. I suppose some similar online arrangement could possibly work post Brexit. That is if it didn't used to be?
But Vic is right #97, no one knows so there is no point in worrying.

 

[macd]

But Vic is right #97, no one knows so there is no point in worrying.

I think "Vic is right #97" is as dependable a mantra as we've heard since the referendum. So much so that I'm thinking of getting the T-shirt. At the very least, it will probably earn you a cold one if you're anywhere near his boat. :encouragement: