sailaboutvic
Well-known member
It didn't before so can't see why it should matter after we/if leave
VAT Status post Brexit
- Thread starter grumpygit
- Start date
It didn't before so can't see why it should matter after we/if leave
Graham376
Well-known member
Personally, I'm not worried about it at the moment. A slight worry for the future is the possible effect on UK/EU sales of second hand boats, quite a lot of UK buyers come over here looking for a cheap boat to take back to the UK. Fortunately, with the lack of registration in UK, the authorities have no idea where a boat is or has been located.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
To be honest Graham I think too much is being made of all this , it will sort it self out and if we find we on the wrong g end of the stick I sure some how we find a way around it .
I see the CA have now posted something else on there site , as I not a member I don't know the full story , but all this isn't helping the stress some People are having .
I just find it hard that we let politicians get us in this mess without having a plain how to go forward , god knows what it's all costing us tax payes .
What's just as bad is why they letting May carry on with this charade ,
I see the CA have now posted something else on there site , as I not a member I don't know the full story , but all this isn't helping the stress some People are having .
I just find it hard that we let politicians get us in this mess without having a plain how to go forward , god knows what it's all costing us tax payes .
What's just as bad is why they letting May carry on with this charade ,
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Mac.
CA had a letter as did the RYA from the Commission to that effect. See Brexit forum on CA.
're eligibility of a yacht in the EU to return to the UK , it's certainly 3 years but you would have to a
Complete idiot to get caught out on this. Who the hell would know or care for that matter.
macd
Active member
Thanks, Chris.
Just to be sure, are you referring to this thread, and in particular the letter quoted in post #1 ?: https://www.theca.org.uk/node/39284
Looks like the death-knell for T2L: whatever a form from HMRC Salford might state, a UK vessel located outside the EU on Brexit day will cease to be union goods. End of.
Sounds draconian, I know, but it's identical in kind with the test for boats "deemed VAT-paid" back in '92.
Since my earlier post I've found similar (but undated) information on the RYA site: https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/no-deal-Brexit-scenario.aspx. The European Commission letter quoted on the CA site is rather more compelling, though. That being the case, would there be any objection to the gist of the letter (or, with permission, the whole of it) appearing on this forum? Or perhaps it has already and I've missed it?
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I think as I not showing the whole wording it should be ok .
“after the UK’s withdrawal from the EU or the end of the transition period in case a Withdrawal Agreement with a transition period is concluded, in general, any goods in the customs territory of the UK will lose their Union status and will become UK goods,” and that “The customs status of a UK boat will depend on its location at that point in time: if the boat is located in an EU port or sails in EU territorial waters, it will keep its Union status; if the boat is located in the UK, its status will be that of a third-country boat when arriving in the territorial waters of the Union, i.e. it will be treated as non-Union goods. Customs controls for such UK boats will be the same as for boats coming from a third country”.
nortada
Well-known member
Where VAT on pleasure boats was concerned, the T2L was always a total red herring.
It’s only significance was the importance placed on it by local authorities in Portugal and Croatia. HMRC Salford just obliged by providing Page 4 (of the 8 page document) to those who requested it.
As to the broader issue of VAT on UK registered vessels post Brexit - nobody knows. It’s all speculation.
Having kept a British registered yacht in the EU since 2001, I have never been required to produce any proof of VAT and in Portugal, post Brexit, unless importing a boat, I would be very surprised if this situation changed but if we leave, time will tell.
It’s only significance was the importance placed on it by local authorities in Portugal and Croatia. HMRC Salford just obliged by providing Page 4 (of the 8 page document) to those who requested it.
As to the broader issue of VAT on UK registered vessels post Brexit - nobody knows. It’s all speculation.
Having kept a British registered yacht in the EU since 2001, I have never been required to produce any proof of VAT and in Portugal, post Brexit, unless importing a boat, I would be very surprised if this situation changed but if we leave, time will tell.
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Irish Rover
Well-known member
This makes absolute perfect sense and, as I suggested in #79, the reverse will apply to boats located in the UK on B day - they will assume UK VAT paid status. My cousin Seamus who happens to be in Hollyhead with his boat on B day will be able to apply for re-importation to the EU on his return to Dublin and presumably his English mate David who was in Le Havre on the same Day will be able to avail of similar re-importation procedures when he returns to the UK.
macd
Active member
1. Yes, despite its recently being promoted by various bodies as some sort of VAT compliance safeguard.
2. "Speculation" is a strange description of a letter from the EU Commission (if that's what you were referring to).
Yet again...state of registration is irrelevant. VAT/duty is a fiscal issue entirely concerned with the fact of whether a boat is compliant. An "EU boat" is not an EU-flagged boat, but one which is EU tax-compliant (or "union goods"). Such a boat can wear any flag and still be an EU boat. (You can probably substitute "UK" for "EU" in either of the last two sentences for the UK boat position, until such time as UK rules change, which might be never.)
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macd
Active member
You've lost me there, Rover. What is this application for re-importation process of what you speak? As it now stands, it involves handing over large wads of dosh. Perhaps you're expecting returning goods relief, which may be possible? It would certainly be inequitable were it otherwise. (But then the equivalent condition for "deemed VAT paid" boats back in the day was also unfair in exactly the same way.)
I'd have to say, though, that an Irish boat in an Irish port, or a UK one in a UK port, is scarcely likely to arouse suspicion. Who's going to check where it was on B-day, even if they had the means to do so? Just carry on sailing.
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macd
Active member
Chris,
Vic kindly stepped in on your behalf.
Another thought: with the inevitable confusion that will arise after Brexit day, especially amongst officials, a copy of the Commission's letter might be a very useful thing to have on board (obviously in conjunction with evidence of the boat's being in the EU on B-Day). Could you suggest to the CA that such a copy be downloadable to members in the same way that various DEKPA documents already are?
You might also have seen that I've remarked on the CA thread about an apparent anomaly about the letter. That being so, it may be that there's further correspondence with the Commission to clarify.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
@chris Rob
Chris I hope I not step on anyone toes , but as the EU commission letter been about for some time , I didn't think it was just for CA members to have , plus I sure you know I do think it's important that such news is passed to everyone who it may affect.
Chris I hope I not step on anyone toes , but as the EU commission letter been about for some time , I didn't think it was just for CA members to have , plus I sure you know I do think it's important that such news is passed to everyone who it may affect.
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sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I get this feeling that us boat owner like having something to stress about ,
Already we talking about what will happen if we return our boats back to the UK re VAT
Already we talking about what will happen if we return our boats back to the UK re VAT
Irish Rover
Well-known member
Maybe I'm confusing myself - wouldn't be the first time. I'm assuming however that [without some sleight of hand] every concerned boat will either have EU customs status or UK customs status on B day depending on it's physical location on the day. So in the case of a UK owned boat on tour in the Med for instance it will acquire EU customs status and presumably lose it's UK customs status. If the owner then decides after a year or two to relocate the boat back to the UK presumably there will be a mechanism for him to do so without paying UK VAT.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Mac. Been away this weekend so a bit slow picking up things.
It would be sensible to have a downloadable copy on the site. I will talk with them.
macd
Active member
I'd hope that's the case, but I'm not at all sure it's inevitable. As said, possibly 'returning goods' allowances might apply. But even if not, many such boats would have an original UK VAT invoice. Assuming the owner doesn't shop himself, who's to know the difference?
The approach contained in the Commission letter has the attraction of extreme simplicity. And, cf my first paragraph...a degree of, er, "flexibility"
macd
Active member
Irish Rover
Well-known member
I guess that's the sleight of hand I mentioned - be advisable then for any UK boat owners who want flexibility for sailing and selling in the future to head for Ireland or the continent on B day and get a nice clear dated marina or mooring receipt.I'd hope that's the case, but I'm not at all sure it's inevitable. As said, possibly 'returning goods' allowances might apply. But even if not, many such boats would have an original UK VAT invoice. Assuming the owner doesn't shop himself, who's to know the difference?
The approach contained in the Commission letter has the attraction of extreme simplicity. And, cf my first paragraph...a degree of, er, "flexibility"
nortada
Well-known member
Where Brexit is concerned the EU speculate as much as everybody else.
Moreover, whatever Brussels may or may not say, countries will continue to enforce the rules as they see fit, with, at times scant regard for what Brussels may or may not say.
I have long held the view that the UK takes far more notice of Brussels than many others and this may be the root of may problems.
Moreover, whatever Brussels may or may not say, countries will continue to enforce the rules as they see fit, with, at times scant regard for what Brussels may or may not say.
I have long held the view that the UK takes far more notice of Brussels than many others and this may be the root of may problems.
Graham376
Well-known member
I see a business opportunity here for forged marina receipts, wonder what price the market would stand?