VAT status and Northern Ireland, 2021 and later

[GTom]

Someone with better understanding of the Brexit woes can explain, what will be the VAT status of a boat kept in NI after the dust settled?

The original plan was to bring the boat to the Republic of Ireland, but all storage and mooring options I've found within reasonable distance (from N Wales) cost almost the same as I'd pay for VAT in case I have to/the boat's resale value would probably decrease less than the refuge costs in the Republic. However, NI has a host of cheap mooring options and as I understand staying in the customs union. Hopefully that also means boats from NI are not liable to pay VAT even if kept in the Med longer than 18 months.

 

[dunedin]

Realistically .... I doubt that anybody knows the answer to this very relevant question.

Without seeking to get this relegated to “another place”, there does not seem to be any clarity between the PM and his ministers regarding how trade will work, and what border checks will be needed on the NI/RoI border or the Irish Sea intra-UK boundary. So getting clarity on pleasure boat VAT could be tricky.
If a member, posting a question to RYA Northern Ireland might be a start?

 

[GTom]

Good idea, I'll ask them.

 

[Stork_III]

AFAIK- NI remains part of UK. EU have stated a boat in the UK at end of transition period will lose its EU VAT status. If it was in RoI it will retain it.

 

[Irish Rover]

As I understand it NI is still part of the UK customs territory and is not part of the EU customs union. Accordingly I would expect boats in NI to continue to be treated the same as all other boats in the UK. However things may change and I can't see the point in making plans until everything become clear.

 

[GTom]

AFAIK- NI remains part of UK. EU have stated a boat in the UK at end of transition period will lose its EU VAT status. If it was in RoI it will retain it.

As I understand it NI is still part of the UK customs territory and is not part of the EU customs union. Accordingly I would expect boats in NI to continue to be treated the same as all other boats in the UK. However things may change and I can't see the point in making plans until everything become clear.

It seems NI stays part of the Single Market area in 2021, because there can be no border checks at the RoI-NI border. However, UK-NI traffic will be checked by HMRC.
Right now technically the entire UK is in the EU until the end of the transition period.

 

[Irish Rover]

It seems NI stays part of the Single Market area in 2021, because there can be no border checks at the RoI-NI border. However, UK-NI traffic will be checked by HMRC.
Right now technically the entire UK is in the EU until the end of the transition period.

All this confusion between the single market and the customs union is another good reason to put any plans or arrangements on hold until things become much clearer. What's the rush.

 

[GTom]

All this confusion between the single market and the customs union is another good reason to put any plans or arrangements on hold until things become much clearer. What's the rush.

Working with limited holidays = have to move on the first opportunity of the season. This is not the Med in terms of weather windows. Also, if NI is ok, then I could simply sign up for one of the clubs on Strangford.

 

[Stork_III]

It seems NI stays part of the Single Market area in 2021, because there can be no border checks at the RoI-NI border. However, UK-NI traffic will be checked by HMRC.
Right now technically the entire UK is in the EU until the end of the transition period.

Not sure what any of that has to do with VAT status in EU.

 

[Irish Rover]

Working with limited holidays = have to move on the first opportunity of the season. This is not the Med in terms of weather windows. Also, if NI is ok, then I could simply sign up for one of the clubs on Strangford.

All the indications are NI will remain part of the UK Customs territory and not part of the EU Customs union. I don't think it will make an iota of difference whether your boat is in Wales or Strangford.

 

[GTom]

Found this: Brexit and the Irish border - Wikipedia

 

[Quandary]

The N.I. Gov. (well the DUP really) are dedicated to ensuring that there will be no difference between N.I. and the rest of the UK. So there will be a civil war before that changes though it may in a decade or two. Bojo may try to shaft them but if he thinks the EU is intransigent wait until he takes on the loyal citizens of the 6 counties.
So the answer to your question - there will be no difference in regulation between keeping a boat in NI or GB. Having said that I kept various boats in harbours and marinas in NI for about 25 years without anyone checking where or what it was. I used to buy sails in Milton Malbay and in Cork, got them sent on the train to Dundalk, took them off it there and drove home with them, no one in NI likes paying VAT.

 

[Quandary]

Way back in the early seventies Ted Heath started talking about introducing a new tax called VAT, I was in the notion of buying a boat so got my order in sharpish to Butler Mouldings who made the Achilles, I ordered a hull with keel, deck and windows and a fully rigged mast though just bare mouldings inside. A bit under 2 grand. To fetch it home I ordered a 4 wheel road trailer as well, and Butlers agreed that they would tow it to Fishguard, stick it on the ferry to Rosslare where I would drive on to the ferry, hitch it on and head North over the border. But it was a Friday and Butler's driver wanted to get home so he put it on the ferry before the one we were to meet.
We got to Rosslare, crack of dawn, Saturday morning, ferry came in but no boat on it, hunted about and found it sitting in the Customs Pound, ( you could not miss it it was yellow) Asked could we take it out and over the border, 'No, you will need to provide a bond.' Directed to the railway station where there was a phone and a fax machine, contacted Beagans in Newry (import export agents) who agreed to fax me a bond. Boat released and we hitched it on and started for home, going fairly slowly (the towing vehicle was my brothers school minibus) noticed that the same car was following us all the way North, as soon as we crossed the border he just turned and went south again. No customs checks in those days because of the troubles though we did have a wee chat with some soldiers. Rang Beagans on Monday to pay for the Bond, "have you still got the paper, not given it to anybody at the border?' 'No, no one there'. ' Stick it in the bin, we won't charge you.'
Of course we were not in the EU in those days.

 

[GTom]

....no one in NI likes paying VAT.

I think that's not NI specific

 

[JohnGC]

For a boat that is VAT paid, the critical date is the end of the transition period. Currently scheduled for 31 Dec 2020.

If the boat is located in the EU27 on that date (including territorial waters) then it will retain its EU27 VAT status. If located outside the EU27 on that date it will lose it.

The UK HMRC have stated that a EU28 VAT paid boat will retain its UK VAT status wherever it is at the end of the transition period.

One option would be to keep your boat in NI and nip over the boarder to ensure the boat is in ROI at the end of the transition. Not necessarily easy that time of year. Go to a marina or boat yard and get an invoice for your stay or work on the boat in order to have some evidence that your boat was in the EU27 at the end of transition. Proving it was at sea within ROI territorial waters is likely to be tricky.

If we eventually crash out without a deal, then my understanding is that the critical date was 31 Jan 2020, so too late.

 

[GTom]

For a boat that is VAT paid, the critical date is the end of the transition period. Currently scheduled for 31 Dec 2020.

If the boat is located in the EU27 on that date (including territorial waters) then it will retain its EU27 VAT status. If located outside the EU27 on that date it will lose it.

The UK HMRC have stated that a EU28 VAT paid boat will retain its UK VAT status wherever it is at the end of the transition period.

One option would be to keep your boat in NI and nip over the boarder to ensure the boat is in ROI at the end of the transition. Not necessarily easy that time of year. Go to a marina or boat yard and get an invoice for your stay or work on the boat in order to have some evidence that your boat was in the EU27 at the end of transition. Proving it was at sea within ROI territorial waters is likely to be tricky.

If we eventually crash out without a deal, then my understanding is that the critical date was 31 Jan 2020, so too late.

Thanks! Neither Carlingford nor Foyle seem very suitable. Foyle has no infrastructure on the RoI side, Carlingford has no moorings on the NI/UK side. The rest is riskier as I might not get holidays for a suitable open-sea weather window.

We are in the real transition period, just came from France and no one stuck a customs declaration form in my hand. Hence, we're not "late".

The end of the transition period is a mystery though. It can be extended up to 2 years!
This means, booking an expensive marina berth ahead, makes zero sense for me. As brexit was delayed multiple times, I suspect the transition period will be delayed too.

 

[JohnGC]

Thanks! Neither Carlingford nor Foyle seem very suitable. Foyle has no infrastructure on the RoI side, Carlingford has no moorings on the NI/UK side. The rest is riskier as I might not get holidays for a suitable open-sea weather window.

We are in the real transition period, just came from France and no one stuck a customs declaration form in my hand. Hence, we're not "late".

The end of the transition period is a mystery though. It can be extended up to 2 years!
This means, booking an expensive marina berth ahead, makes zero sense for me. As brexit was delayed multiple times, I suspect the transition period will be delayed too.

I understand that you will only be late if the transition period terminates with a no deal. Not currently on the cards - but who knows? But I haven't researched this as thoroughly as the rest.

 

[GTom]

I understand that you will only be late if the transition period terminates with a no deal. Not currently on the cards - but who knows? But I haven't researched this as thoroughly as the rest.

That would be retroactive legislation, meaning that all goods exchanged between the UK and the EU27 starting from 01.02.2020 should be liable to tariffs. This includes yesterday's car shipments too... I don't think they would top the anarchy caused by a no-deal situation with this. Or is there a clause in the transition period agreement, that in case of no-deal, this year "has to be undone" and the customs man will knock on every Europeans door to pay tariffs on goods ordered from the UK and vica versa?

 

[Quandary]

Thanks! Neither Carlingford nor Foyle seem very suitable. Foyle has no infrastructure on the RoI side, Carlingford has no moorings on the NI/UK side. The rest is riskier as I might not get holidays for a suitable open-sea weather window.

We are in the real transition period, just came from France and no one stuck a customs declaration form in my hand. Hence, we're not "late".

The end of the transition period is a mystery though. It can be extended up to 2 years!
This means, booking an expensive marina berth ahead, makes zero sense for me. As brexit was delayed multiple times, I suspect the transition period will be delayed too.

There are some yachts kept at Warrenpoint, which is in the 'North' at the head of Carlingford Lough, though it is a commercial harbour. A few years ago it was supposed to be possible to get in to the Newry Canal there with a draught close to 5', but this is all third hand information so do not trust it.
It is not far from Lough Foyle round to Lough Swilly where there is largish marina at Fahan. Tell them you are dodging Vat payments, any Irish man who does not work for a government dept. will go out of his way to help you, it is part of the culture.

 

[Seven Spades]

I would not rely on the status of NI as I doubt it will be understood. If you want to retain you VAT paid status leave your boat in the EU at the end of the season.