Update on Yachting Monthly and PBO

[steve yates]

Think so? I always ignore them. Just shows how difficult it must be to tailor a magazine's contents to suit what you think the buyers might want.

yup, very true. Though I should probably add, when I read them But then compared to the other columnists, whom I usually scan and skip. But to have a wide appeal, mags will need to have different stuff that attracts different folk.

 

[RobF]

Thanks so much for your refreshingly honest post, Elaine. Much appreciated.

Yup, I also hate the small format and the transparent paper its written on. I want better quality on a magazine costing the best part of £5 or £46 for annual subscription.

I have found that there is too much focus lately on 50foot plus boats (which I will never be able to afford) and on cruising stories from places that I haven't heard of and am unlikely to ever visit. This makes the magazine seem irrelevant to me. The second hand boat reviews are good, but some of the stuff was a bit obvious (like giving one star for "creek crawling" to a boat which had a 2.5m draft). I've also enjoyed reading the editorial pages by Dick, Libby and Tom.

Generally, I found there has been too little detail (and perhaps not enough thought) in many of the recent articles (although the recent article on MOB myths busted is a welcome exception). It would be helpful to have a few more pictures on the kit reviews and boat tests (e.g. neither of the boats tested in the recent Sept issue had a picture of their aft cabins). It might also be interesting to have some longer term tests in a bit more detail - particularly on some of the more common boats and kit items. I think this was the reason why the PBO project boat was a success - it was covered in detail and therefore lots of people learnt from it. Perhaps a similar series on diesel engines, short handed sailing, first aid at sea or sail trim would be welcome. This shouldn't be a 2 page article - I suspect most YM/PBO subscribers know the basics and articles written at a superficial level are unlikely to be informative or interesting. For this reason, I find the articles by James Stevens very good - because of his informative commentary and insight.

Echoing doug748 above), I think most YM subscribers have got a reasonable idea of what a charter in the Med or Caribbean entails or what might happen during a comp crew course. If you do want to cover these, do them from the perspective of a competent skipper - e.g. these are the skills and tools you need to competently charter in the Med . This would be far more interesting to me than most of the Med charter articles which describe on a day by day what the weather was like, the distances traveled, the name of the destination and a brief eulogy of the local tavern.

Finally, it seems that marinas escape the watchful eye of your testers. A detailed independent review of some marinas in the UK, including photos of the facilities, prices, commentary from berth holders (positive and negateive) and any gotchas etc would be helpful for many of us. If you do go down this route, please don't copy and paste PR releases written by the marina staff - the reason why we like the reviews by Snooks and Chris B are because they are analytical and independent.

 

[Seven Spades]

Dear Elaine,

I really like the articles by Tom and Libby.

I think that Toby and Chris are not good at video boat reviews, but are very good at written reviews. On the Yachting World youtube channel there is a review of the Oyster 475 and 545 by Matthew Sheahan and it is brilliant, It is so polished by wonderfully presented I really think that he should do all your video reviews.

As for other content, I love the gear tests, I love letters to the editor and ask the expert type content.

I love the odd article you publish by people cruising in far off places, very inspiring.

If I could I would do a sort of pilot guide of round Britain. Try to follow some one circumnavigating the UK and then publish each month marina/ anchorage suggestions, prices, places to visit etc. A sort of written version of Keep turning left, possibly pull out. If you get the right person it would encourage people to buy the mag each month to collect the set if they are hooked.

I like to follow the VOR and Vendee Globe, but no others so perhaps this is best left to Yachting World?

You could do a monthly article on yachting heroes, RKJ, Blondie, Mike Golding, Alex Thomson, Peter Blake etc.

 

[jordanbasset]

Agree with those posts about combining the two, making one high quality publication. There is a lot of overlap anyway and I find looking at the newsagents there are articles in both mags I would like to read, but often not enough in each single mag to make we want to buy it

 

[Tomahawk]

I tend to read on-line content rather than on paper. I don't mind the adverts still, although they will never persuade me to buy anything. Any advert with moving (data wasting) content really annoys me and can often persuade me to close the page in an instant.

The othr issue is....How will the Forums be affected?

 

[Cantata]

......I really like the articles by Tom and Libby...............

Several people have said this and it illustrates that not everyone here reads every issue - those two stopped writing for YM several issues ago.
I really can't see a case for continuing both mags but then I don't know the numbers. But I think a mag with a good deal more content than the current single issues, and combining the ethos of PBO and YM would be an attractive buy.

 

[STATUE]

There's constant whinging about how the mags aren't what they used to be and I agree to a certain extent. I think the jam is spread way to thinly atm and would like to see PBO incorporated into Yachting Monthly.

Both have almost exactly the same readership profile and are UK focused. I'm guessing many non subscription readers choose which magazine to buy based on the cover (I know I did) and few would buy both in a given month.

So yeah, I would like to see all of the content of YM and all of the content of PBO in one UK focused magazine : -)

So, there you have it. : 'PRACTICAL YACHTING MONTHLY' !

Simples !

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Well not sure about that, I never buy PBO as (a) it deals with smaller boats and I like bigger ones, and (b) I'm not and never will be an avid DIYer. However, an amalgamated magazine that kept the best of both and was bigger to accommodate it, might be good.

I'm also interest in power so wouldn't in principle have an objection to power cruising related content appearing (not a crossover with MBY though).

 

[snooks]

Several people have said this and it illustrates that not everyone here reads every issue - those two stopped writing for YM several issues ago.

You're correct about Tom, however, Libby still writes for YM – she's just in every other month at the moment. :0)

 

[lpdsn]

I'll have to start by admitting that I haven't bought either of the mags for about 9 years now. I used to. I ended up with a pile 6 foot high, going back to the mid nineties, in the hallway that I dumped in the recycling bin over a few weeks.

So the question is why. The main reason is that they just weren't interesting any more. I don't think they'd changed much but I had. I'd done enough sailing to have outgrown the mags. I can only presume that I just wasn't the target market any more.

So what do I read. Not much these days. I read through a borrowed copy of Practical Boatbuilder from time to time and I subscribed to Speed'n'Smarts for a few years, but didn't renew the last time as I'm now doing more cruising than racing.

I would read a magazine that was interesting (I'd subscribe to Practical Boatbuilder - it's free - but it is industry only). I buy enough books on various aspects of sailing too.

I guess YM & PBO (or whatever they call it when the inevitable merger happens) really has to decide what markets they or it are aiming at. If it is just beginners, or just the backward-looking nostalgic market that often seems to predominate on YBW, then so be it. I suspect there's not enough of either to keep you going.

So I think you'll have to experiment. Don't take much out as you'll lose the existing market, but try to expand what you cover. Maybe get Flaming or someone like him to describe what's in racing for a cruiser. Do a few more in-depth articles where experienced sailors are likely to learn something. Even technical, boat design. Perhaps Aspects of keel design. Or spade rudder design and strength calculations. Are there no lecturers at the Solent Uni who might want a few bob for a popular engineering type article?

Maybe get readers to describe their local marina warts and all - I'm amazed how much navigational misinformation there is out there on marinas and harbours away from the mainstream.

One thing that might attract me back is to include a monthly almanac in the mags. The French do. It would be handy for the occasional sextant user who doesn't want to buy a full almanac each year. If the UKHO charges too much try asking the French or some other foreign Hydrography office. But you would have to get rid of the surcharge for Ireland. I'd not be willing to pay more than UK prices.

Or as I said, I'm maybe just not the target market.

 

[MickeyP]

I started to get the magazine a few years ago when I started getting into sailing. As a newbie I found it very interesting/useful and still do. Not every reader is an experienced sailor so some of the beginners stuff is very useful and I would think could act a as reminder to more experienced readers.

Like others, I do think that some of the very expensive boat reviews are a waste of time but did look at all of the past reviews for boats in the 30’ – 40’ before buying my current boat which helped.
The forum is great and looking at the questions asked could give some ideas for future articles/update articles.

I like the new equipment features, second hand boat reviews, navigation articles and practical tips. I find PBO too technical for me but think it would make sense to combine the 2.

I am sure that I got a two free SIBS tickets a couple of years ago for being a subscriber which was a nice touch.

For me a few hours entertainment for subscriber’s price is money well spent.

Good luck for the future.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Do a few more in-depth articles where experienced sailors are likely to learn something. Even technical, boat design. Perhaps Aspects of keel design. Or spade rudder design and strength calculations. Are there no lecturers at the Solent Uni who might want a few bob for a popular engineering type article?

Years ago one of the mags ran an extended series by Prof Marchaj about sailing aerohydrodynamics. OK, it was unreadable, but it did at least show good higher-level aspirations.

Things (in both mags) I have enjoyed recently:

• Hantu Biru - best thing in years, because of the sheer range of topics covered ("Last month we painted the hull. This month we fit an alternator to the engine. Next month we make a sail.")
• Tim Bartlett on diesel engines. In fact, Tim Bartlett on anything.
• Stuart Davies' diesel engine reconditioning
• Richard Stilgoe's circumnavigation of Winchester
• Sam Llwellyn, especially the Minimum Boat
• Libby Purves, always

Things (in both mags) which have recently bored the arse off me

• Almost all accounts of cruises
• The current PBO project ("Last month we stuck some wood together. This month we stick some wood together. Next month we'll stick some wood together. Eventually we'll have an ugly modern version of a Silhouette")
• That truly terribly article on the IRPCS illustrated with model boats. What were they smoking?

Things I think the mags should give up on

• Manouvering hints like "Britain's Trickiest Berths" (aka it's a bit grim oop t'Hamble) because they are always unfollowable and would be far better done in video.

Things I think the mags should do more of

• Aim at the chartering classes. Huge numbers of people do their sailing in chartered boats and there is stuff-all explicitly for them.
• Honest new and long-term product reviews, with the sort of humorous cynicism Sailing Today used to bring to them

Finally, I will subscribe for a year on the spot in return for a solemn promise not to mention That Bloody Race for the full twelve months.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

^ Chartering focussed articles, good idea. I liked that piece a few issues ago about using furling sails with an emphasis on charter boats, written by Barrie Neilson (spelling?)

 

[lpdsn]

Aim at the chartering classes. Huge numbers of people do their sailing in chartered boats and their is stuff-all explicitly for them.

Definitely something in that I think. There are definitely tips an experienced charterer could give to help newbies find their way. And some charter companies do try it on a little so handy to be forewarned. Most I've seen (OK, pre 2009) were along the lines of isn't this a nice sunny place to go.

Good point about Videos and YouTube. There are many things now that are far better explained on YouTube than they ever could be in a mag. No point in trying to compete too hard there.

Something on new types of electronics. e.g. using OpenCPN. Maybe they could even try to persuade the NMEA that trying to keep NMEA0183 secret isn't worth the effort, so there could be good opportunities there for something different and up to date. And there's enough publically available info on the NMEA website to give the surface of N2K a decent deep scratch without infringing anything.

Agree about the cruise reports. Lots better on YouTube if anyone is interested. Detailed nav tips of anywhere readers are likely to go are still useful then. The style of pilot books and almanacs is still decades out of date, so potential to compete there rather than just follow.

Of course, many of my ideas are likely to not hit the spot, it's not my profession after all, but I do think good ideas are needed.

Shame about the CA Marchaij articles. It's perhaps not always the expert who explains it the best.

 

[lpdsn]

Finally, I will subscribe for a year on the spot in return for a solemn promise not to mention That Bloody Race for the full twelve months.

What, the RTIR?

 

[flaming]

I was going through some of the stuff that came off my Dad's boat when it was sold recently, and in amongst all the other pilot books etc were 2 ring binders full of the pull out and keep "Destinations" bit that YM ran quite some time ago.
Really, really good stuff and covered a massive range of ports. Refreshing that info would be a great resource for the cruising yachtsman.

Other than that, I'd say the main thing that YM, YW and PBO should do is make far, far more use of this forum. Every now and again there's a "hey, help us out with this article" post, but nothing comes back from the mags to here. (other than the 360 pics that snooks used to share)
Yet YW does loads on facebook. Some pretty good content, but drives no traffic to it's own forum where advertising could sit? Madness...

And I totally agree about the "News panel". It's embarrassing. Either sort it or dump it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

What, the RTIR?

That one too.

 

[Mark-1]

Tim Bartlett on diesel engines. In fact, Tim Bartlett on anything.

I read his book on Astro Nav a while back, potentially dry subject but he covered it in an engaging way and I had no problem getting a fix using it as a guide. He did a detailed comparative article on some kind of marine electronics which impressed me. (Although seemingly not enough to remember the detail of the topic.)

So Tim Bartlett on a mag cover makes me more likely to buy it, which I fear still isn't very likely. A mag cover with both Tim Bartlett and Bob Shepton would certainly make me dip my hand in my pocket.

 

[wrecktangle]

Years ago one of the mags ran an extended series by Prof Marchaj about sailing aerohydrodynamics. OK, it was unreadable, but it did at least show good higher-level aspirations.

Things (in both mags) I have enjoyed recently:

• Hantu Biru - best thing in years, because of the sheer range of topics covered ("Last month we painted the hull. This month we fit an alternator to the engine. Next month we make a sail.")
• Tim Bartlett on diesel engines. In fact, Tim Bartlett on anything.
• Stuart Davies' diesel engine reconditioning
• Richard Stilgoe's circumnavigation of Winchester
• Sam Llwellyn, especially the Minimum Boat
• Libby Purves, always

Things (in both mags) which have recently bored the arse off me

• Almost all accounts of cruises
• The current PBO project ("Last month we stuck some wood together. This month we stick some wood together. Next month we'll stick some wood together. Eventually we'll have an ugly modern version of a Silhouette")
• That truly terribly article on the IRPCS illustrated with model boats. What were they smoking?

Things I think the mags should give up on

• Manouvering hints like "Britain's Trickiest Berths" (aka it's a bit grim oop t'Hamble) because they are always unfollowable and would be far better done in video.

Things I think the mags should do more of

• Aim at the chartering classes. Huge numbers of people do their sailing in chartered boats and there is stuff-all explicitly for them.
• Honest new and long-term product reviews, with the sort of humorous cynicism Sailing Today used to bring to them

Finally, I will subscribe for a year on the spot in return for a solemn promise not to mention That Bloody Race for the full twelve months.

yep that pretty much somes up my view too!

 

[mjcoon]

What, the RTIR?

Or Portland?

Mike.