UK vs Baltic anchoring

[Refueler]

I have grown up with the UK style of roller on the stem, anchor and chain / rode up fwd ... my SR25 has such a setup and has been used quite often not only when was in UK - but also later when she came to Baltic.

My Swedish built Conq38 though has the oft found no stem roller or provision for anchor + rode. Its stowed in the transom locker. Its about the recc'd size of Bruce - not my fav I have to say but its what it is - with a couple metres of chain - then Ankorlina reel which is mounted INSIDE the locker.
I get the impression that previous owners were not so interested in anchoring ! Even Swedish moor with anchor as kedge and couple of bow lines to shore seem a bit past it for this setup. The Bruce would be an absolute pain to manhandle through the rail aft ... let alone sort out to anchor from the bow !

Obviously to bow anchor ... I would disconnect the rode ..... lead fwd - pass outboard and back to cockpit to connect again ... basically drop the 'hook'from there and then let boat come to the rode. Better than try carry it fwd !!

 

[William_H]

No one commented? I would think an easy set up might be to attach a line from the bow brought out side of the boat to the stern where hope fully you can attach the end of it to the main anchor line now off the stern. So then ease the anchor rode until load is from bow. I think you say the 38fter has no anchor facilities in the bow. Surprising but OK.
I don't imagine you would contemplate anchoring stern to wind and wave. But something nice about being able to deploy anchor from the stern. Just go to get the anchor load to the bow. Some sort of attachment to the anchor rode. easily attached and removed. Unfortunately this would mean anchor retrieval would pull the boat stern to anchor and load. Perhaps OK. I guess you need to experiment and see what you find in practice. ol'will

 

[Neeves]

I have grown up with the UK style of roller on the stem, anchor and chain / rode up fwd ... my SR25 has such a setup and has been used quite often not only when was in UK - but also later when she came to Baltic.

My Swedish built Conq38 though has the oft found no stem roller or provision for anchor + rode. Its stowed in the transom locker. Its about the recc'd size of Bruce - not my fav I have to say but its what it is - with a couple metres of chain - then Ankorlina reel which is mounted INSIDE the locker.
I get the impression that previous owners were not so interested in anchoring ! Even Swedish moor with anchor as kedge and couple of bow lines to shore seem a bit past it for this setup. The Bruce would be an absolute pain to manhandle through the rail aft ... let alone sort out to anchor from the bow !

Obviously to bow anchor ... I would disconnect the rode ..... lead fwd - pass outboard and back to cockpit to connect again ... basically drop the 'hook'from there and then let boat come to the rode. Better than try carry it fwd !!

I'd buy a new bow roller, that fits, and install.

I'd then choose an aluminium anchor, Spade or Excel - I'm guessing for your yacht 8kg (but neither is cheap) (or wait for the new anchor from Viking, their Odin model). And if you find the costs prohibitive - use a steel anchor, anything you want - it will weight around 15kg. If you are anchoring in mud or sand a Fortress would be more than adequate. For a rode short length of chain and the rest cordage (or tape, Ankorlina) - one of the tape reel suppliers offers dyneema).

When in the Baltic I did see a lot of Bruce - and noted same - there must be a lot of mud.

You fix the new bow roller but the rest can be stored, anywhere, as nothing is very heavy - its not that difficult to carry a 15kg steel anchor along a side deck.

But you could secure any anchor to the new bow roller - and simply pack the rode away. Rope or tape can be easily handled, with something like a garden hose reel located at the mast base.

Most of the yachts I know of on the Baltic are like yours - full stern ground tackle, nothing on the bow - which seems odd to us (but our kit must seem odd to them). Most Baltic yachts also have a bow located (or bow locatable) passerelle (in the same way Med yachts have a stern located passerelle (but you really don't see them anywhere else.

Horses for courses.

I did, do, like the idea of a stern anchor (and bow primary) anchor - it gives you more options for anchoring. Sadly boat builders find such ideas are not really marketable (except in the Baltic).


I assume that the bow locker, commonly the chain or anchor locker in 'normal' yachts, is used in the 'accomodation' for the forward berth.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

I considered adding a bow roller - but then it will prevent use of the bow boarding ladder ... an item that is quite important here. Often boats here are tied up to trees / rocks by the bow and need a way to get on / off ... the pulpits are constructed with a low centre part as a step through - this matches up with the bow ladder.

Quite a few boats here have two Ankorlina reels .... one fixed on pushpit with anchor draped over rail ... another fixed to pulpit ready to attach an anchor.

I have no bow locker - actually no deck access hatch ... and in the forecabin - the stem space is a 'clean locker' for users of the cabin.

I have one of the smaller Ankorlina reels with carry handle on my river boats .. which would work .. and is not fixed to anything. That could suffice for the odd bow anchoring time.

Still a project to work through ...

 

[Refueler]

No one commented? I would think an easy set up might be to attach a line from the bow brought out side of the boat to the stern where hope fully you can attach the end of it to the main anchor line now off the stern. So then ease the anchor rode until load is from bow. I think you say the 38fter has no anchor facilities in the bow. Surprising but OK.
I don't imagine you would contemplate anchoring stern to wind and wave. But something nice about being able to deploy anchor from the stern. Just go to get the anchor load to the bow. Some sort of attachment to the anchor rode. easily attached and removed. Unfortunately this would mean anchor retrieval would pull the boat stern to anchor and load. Perhaps OK. I guess you need to experiment and see what you find in practice. ol'will

That's my plan of action until I may decide something else ..... basically drop anchor from stern and let boat come to rode led from bow.

One thing I may do - is look at 'un-mounting' the Ankorlina reel from inside the transom locker. See about fixing to pushpit as most boats do. I cannot understand the logic of mounting it permanently inside the locker ??

 

[Neeves]

I considered adding a bow roller - but then it will prevent use of the bow boarding ladder ... an item that is quite important here. Often boats here are tied up to trees / rocks by the bow and need a way to get on / off ... the pulpits are constructed with a low centre part as a step through - this matches up with the bow ladder.

Quite a few boats here have two Ankorlina reels .... one fixed on pushpit with anchor draped over rail ... another fixed to pulpit ready to attach an anchor.

I have no bow locker - actually no deck access hatch ... and in the forecabin - the stem space is a 'clean locker' for users of the cabin.

I have one of the smaller Ankorlina reels with carry handle on my river boats .. which would work .. and is not fixed to anything. That could suffice for the odd bow anchoring time.

Still a project to work through ...

I think in your case I'd consider how you will design the boarding ladder (passerelle - or is such only from the stern?). Once you know how the boarding ladder will fit you might then be able to find a bow roller that suits what you want to achieve.

There are lots of suppliers of bow rollers with a variety of designs - I think you would find something to suit (and then we could discuss snubbers). Boarding ladders are totally outside my background, but they always seem narrow, challenging and not for anyone who likes alcohol.

Interesting thread, refreshing and out of the ordinary.

Jonathan

 

[dunedin]

A Rocna or similar on a bow roller makes a much better bow boarding step than the current wooden pad.
Delta or CQR to be avoided as don't make decent steps

 

[Tranona]

The fact that so many Scandinavian boats don't have anchoring arrangements at the bow suggests they don't need it. The designers and builders are pragmatic people and design their boats to meet buyers' needs. Bow to mooring and anchoring from the stern is normality hence boats with boarding over the bow and anchor arrangements from the stern. Very few of the boats like Refueller's are seen outside the Baltic as they were never intended for sale outside the area. Those builders like HR, Malo or the performance boats with a wider market either fitted bow anchoring as standard or offered it as an option.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

… The designers and builders are pragmatic people and design their boats to meet buyers' needs. Bow to mooring and anchoring from the stern is normality hence boats with boarding over the bow and anchor arrangements from the stern. …

@Tranona That likely explains why the forestay is set back from the bow on Refuler’s boat, to allow easier boarding from the bow. A couple of Scandinavian boats at my marina have the forestays mounted at the bow, and fold down ladder devices built into the pulpit.

@Refueler I sometimes do what you suggest but in reverse, anchor as normal, then with a chain hook and line, anchor by the stern swinging the boat around. It’s very easy to do and a lot simpler than rigging up a kedge (in my case). I do it to reduce swinging at anchor, boat is very prone to it. Now reason why you could not do something similar the other way.

 

[B27]

I don't think it's so much about the Baltic vs UK, as being a racing boat.

Most half-serious race boats will carry their anchors below, to avoid weight high up in the bow and also because SI's used to commonly forbid having an anchor on the bow in case of collision.

Last century, it was normal for cruiser-racers to carry a minimal amount of chain and lots of nylon rope for the anchor(s). These boats were set up to be sailed by several crew, so deploying an anchor that's stored downstairs is not a problem.

I've seen removable bow rollers and fairleads on higher end yachts. Not onoy do you not want the weight in the bow, you don't want anything non-essential to snag lines or spinnakers.

 

[johnalison]

Most anchoring that we saw in the Baltic was from the stern when mooring to the shore. A Bruce and a short length of chain with some form of line on a roller makes this quite simple and is what we have on our HR. I saw a good number of boats without a bow roller as with Refueller, and this fits with our experience that anchoring is not usually the obvious thing to do. There are large expanses of shallow waters around the Danish islands and elsewhere such as Rugen, but not many places you would choose to anchor, though we have done this on occasion. Harbour fees are not generally so onerous that one feels forced to anchor anyway.

Refueller knows his waters, which I don't, but I might settle for using any anchor I trust with a little chain and the rest line and deploying it from the bow cleats, perhaps with some chafe protection, and see how I go on for a season and think about installing a roller and locker if this proved too much effort.

 

[srm]

@Refueler I don't know the geology/seabed in your area but found the Bruce patent anchor was usually reliable on the west coast of Norway as it worked in sediment when anchoring conventionally in enclosed basins and could hook on rock edges when mooring to the shore. Of course it couldn't get a grip on smooth ice polished rock, but then nothing can.

 

[Refueler]

I think in your case I'd consider how you will design the boarding ladder (passerelle - or is such only from the stern?). Once you know how the boarding ladder will fit you might then be able to find a bow roller that suits what you want to achieve.

There are lots of suppliers of bow rollers with a variety of designs - I think you would find something to suit (and then we could discuss snubbers). Boarding ladders are totally outside my background, but they always seem narrow, challenging and not for anyone who likes alcohol.

Interesting thread, refreshing and out of the ordinary.

Jonathan

The bow boarding ladder is already a part of the boats inventory and its not a cheap one either .... it fits that bow and pulpit... with support leg under etc.
In the photo - you see the lump of teak fixed down at the peak ... that's part of the setup. So any roller would need to clear that. Without altering that - the only place I could imagine a roller would be to one side - removing a short section of alloy toe-rail.

 

[Refueler]

A Rocna or similar on a bow roller makes a much better bow boarding step than the current wooden pad.
Delta or CQR to be avoided as don't make decent steps

The ladder itself folds and is stowed ... that wooden pad is part of the system - not the step !!

 

[Refueler]

The fact that so many Scandinavian boats don't have anchoring arrangements at the bow suggests they don't need it. The designers and builders are pragmatic people and design their boats to meet buyers' needs. Bow to mooring and anchoring from the stern is normality hence boats with boarding over the bow and anchor arrangements from the stern. Very few of the boats like Refueller's are seen outside the Baltic as they were never intended for sale outside the area. Those builders like HR, Malo or the performance boats with a wider market either fitted bow anchoring as standard or offered it as an option.

Near all boats built in Scandy / Baltic did and do offer bow anchoring as option when a new purchase. The common form is the bow plank with roller set in and anchor held up. But its not cheap. And we all know boaters are not exactly easy to get money out of !
Its not just the realm of HR / Malo etc.

The two boats I looked at Mamba and Conqubin - bought the Conqubin - both were booked to be shown at London and Southampton Boat Shows when they were first built - they were designed as performance boats for more than just the Baltic Market.

 

[Refueler]

I started the thread not so much looking for solutions - more to create a conversation. So often anchors and so on are based on Bow anchoring ... I thought it might be interesting for some to consider another format ??

As a few have noted - the boat design is intended for racing and some cruising ... so she carries that form. She is Swedish and so has the bow arrangements common for such.

Having a UK designed and built boat here as well ... does show up the differences .... UK boat has no step through pulpit ... forestay is right up next to pulpit etc etc. It is less convenient than the 'Swedish' setup. When you carrying stuff on / off - that 'clear area' on the 'Swedish' foredeck is really handy.

 

[srm]

Yes, UK designed boat did not work very well in Danish guest harbours. Mooring with stern lines to a pair of wood piles and bow lines on to wood pier was soon mastered. Clambering over pulpit at side of forestay was not easy when everything was wet. Fortunately, we had low freeboard so doable but a ladder or steps would have helped and would be essential on more modern boats.
I fitted a simple DIY stern anchor roller on a board to clear the transom and carried an anchor with a few meters of chain and nylon rope flaked in a bag in a cockpit locker. We had to use this when mooring in harbours bow to the stone pier. There the problem was climbing from the pulpit up on to the pier and getting back down again.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Admittedly I have not done it ( well yes I have once in Norway)) what's wrong with a Mediterranean moor stern to and using a fender board if necessary to bridge any gap?

 

[Tranona]

The two boats I looked at Mamba and Conqubin - bought the Conqubin - both were booked to be shown at London and Southampton Boat Shows when they were first built - they were designed as performance boats for more than just the Baltic Market.

Maybe, but doubt they sold any, although Scandinavian boats were more popular particularly cruiser/racers in the 70/80s until tastes changed and prices shot up

Did I not say bow roller arrangements were offered as options? or did you choose not to read that bit? Pointy bow boats with inboard forestays were a common feature of Baltic boats going right back to the early days of the metre boats, but not common elsewhere. Reflects the style of sailing and facilities available. Much the same as the popularity of sugar scoop sterns following stern to mooring in the Med, which also has warm water to swim in.

 

[dunedin]

Admittedly I have not done it ( well yes I have once in Norway)) what's wrong with a Mediterranean moor stern to and using a fender board if necessary to bridge any gap?

The rudder. Going bows to a rock means the keel and importantly rudder are in deeper water.
PS Even in late 80's early 90's when YM referred to as "Mediterranean mooring" they meant bows to (I noted reading an old magazine). Not sure when that flipped to meaning stern to.