UK Sailors And Expats In The EU - Run Up To Friday 29th March 2019 & Beyond?

[cynthia]

You could probably swing it on the basis of owning property and showing that you were self supporting in France ie paying taxes and the usual household bills but one of the things that I had to prove was that I had medical care covered this I did through my carte vital which was granted via the S1 route and EH1C will not be sufficient I also have insurance.
My understanding is that it is for people that intend permanency not being half in half out, I suspect that if that came to light in the interview it would not be granted.

I suspect you are right, but might go down the Longue Duree route first and try to get an extended duree status. It would only need an extra couple of days to qualify for residency in France, but I'm reluctant to go down that route. Not keen on sailing in Turkey or Croatia though which is the other solution.
I found this interesting on the remaininfrance site, which confirms you view, but offers other answers too.

If you currently live for part of the year in France but are still resident (for fiscal and all other purposes) in the UK, you basically have some tough choices to make. And just to make things totally clear - you can apply for a Carte de Séjour ONLY if you're exercising treaty rights and are legally resident in France.

​Here are your choices.

1. You can remain as a British resident and accept that your visits to France will have to be restricted to 90 days in every 180 days. OR

2. If you want to stay longer than 90 days at a time in France after 31 December 2020, you can go through the immigration process in France. In a nutshell, this is what you'd have to do as a Third Country National:
before you leave the UK you'd need to apply to the French Consulate in the UK for a long stay visa;
once arrived in France, you would have 2 months to apply for a titre de séjour. If you're retired or otherwise inactive, you apply for a card entitled 'Visitor' which doesn't allow you to work. You'd need to show evidence of 'sufficient and stable resources' - this is higher for Third Country Nationals than for EU citizens and is currently set at the net level of SMIC: 1170,69€ per month, per person. For a visitor's titre de séjour note that you do NOT need to show evidence of health cover, although if after 5 years you want to apply for a Titre de Séjour Longue Durée you would at that point need to do so. The cost of a visitor's titre de séjour is currently 269€ and the card lasts for one year; it's renewable, and to renew you'd need to show the same evidence as for an initial application.
For more details, use this link to take you to the official government web page: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F302. OR

3. You can consider becoming legally resident in France before the end of transition on 31 December 2020 and therefore having residence and other rights protected under the Withdrawal Agreement. This, of course, only applies if there IS a Withdrawal Agreement - if the UK leaves the EU without a deal then there will be no Withdrawal Agreement and no transition. Please see this page for some information on a no deal scenario.

Becoming resident is a major decision and not one to be taken lightly. In order to become French resident, you must be exercising your treaty rights of free movement. You can do this without having to spend 365 days a year in France - in fact if you spend 183 days a year or more in France you can be legally resident.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Regular income stream into a French bank account and tax payments, the CdJ gives non EU nationals the right to reside, ie residency it implies and I will bet anything that it will be interpreted as a degree of permanency ie not 180 days in and 180 days out. It does not give you the right to residency in another EU country or extension of Shengan travel it is purely a basis of affirming your residency as a holiday home owner you will not need it nor will it benefit you in the very remote chance that a functionaire granted one.

Here is the official position.

https://www.remaininfrance.org/carte-de-sejour.html

Thanks thats v useful. However this looks suspiciously like a Remainer website. Now that this thread has been transferred to the Brexit forum are you sure you dont want to delete your post for fear of being labelled a traitor

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

CLEARLY THE MODS IGNORED MY REQUEST TO LEAVE THIS THREAD IN LIVEABOARD LINK

Agreed. Dont understand why they did that. The thread is of wider interest than just to those in the Brexit forum

 

[RAI]

Becoming resident is a major decision and not one to be taken lightly. In order to become French resident, you must be exercising your treaty rights of free movement. You can do this without having to spend 365 days a year in France - in fact if you spend 183 days a year or more in France you can be legally resident.

And pay your income tax there.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

remaininfrance.org is an excellent site. It will give you all the details of how to apply for a Carte Sejour and the minimum income requirements, which vary according to working/ non working details. Also requirement for health cover, necessary after the first year for an initial Carte, but not if you qualify for a permanent one after the initial 5 year period.

Thanks. I was confused by the first website address!

 

[RAI]

Lots of good info and links for France, are there similar sources for Portugal and Spain?

 

[jordanbasset]

Unless you have residency I would suggest pending no deal o freedom of movement we will be in a similar situation to US Citizens, a useful link here
https://www.internationalstudentins.../us-citizens-traveling-schengen-countries.php
Do US passport-holders need a visa?
If you are a US citizen with a US passport traveling to the Schengen countries for tourism or business, you will not need a visa as long as you spend 90 days or less in these countries. Under this agreement, you can enter the Schengen area as long as your stay does not exceed 90 days within a 6 month period.

What documents should you bring upon entry?
US Passport
As a US citizen, you will need to make sure that the validity of your passport extends 90 days after your initial arrival in the Schengen area.
Proof of funds
You will need to bring documentation that shows that you have sufficient finances to support your entire stay in the region.
Purpose of travel
You will need to provide a reason - and documentation that can support this -for your travel to the region.
Other items you may need
You may also need to show additional entry documents depending on the countries you will be traveling to. Be sure to investigate each destination country and any additional paperwork required.
What should I expect upon arrival
When you arrive in a Schengen member country, you will still need to show your passport and go through customs. At this external border, if approved entry, you will receive a stamp with the date indicating your arrival into the country. Once admitted, you will have free access to move within the Schengen region as long as you do not spend more than 90 days within a 180-day period.

What should I expect when departing the Schengen region?
Your passport will be stamped when you leave the Schengen region and you will need to wait another 90 days before you can apply again without a visa.
You can learn more about various insurance plans for the schengen visa below:'

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Unless you have residency I would suggest pending no deal o freedom of movement we will be in a similar situation to US Citizens, a useful link here

Jeez thats scary. I look forward to the screaming headlines in the Sun and Express as thousands of Brits are turned back at Malaga airport for not having the requisite documents. Out of interest, in the case of US citizens, do the airlines check that they have all of the required documents before they board the aircraft or is it pot luck at passport control when they arrive? Also why dont we Brits have to supply these documents when travelling to the USA? Do we have a separate agreement with the USA being outside Schengen?

What happened to this idea that was around a few months ago of an EU passport for Brits that wanted it after Brexit?

 

[nortada]

Lots of good info and links for France, are there similar sources for Portugal and Spain?

Good point, I will have a rummage around. At one time I used to use the Expat Forum, which, once you have registered, is country specific.

As the thread matures it is becoming very apparent that EU countries have very different rules and interpret their rules in a variety ways so when posting it may be useful if folk identify their area of interest and experience?

I use the Location (at the top of every post) to identify my interest is Iberia but as Portugal and Spain are so different I may restrict it to Portugal and leave the folk up the Guadiana to cover the dual issue. If Brexit goes really tit-up we may all be up the Guadiana frontier dodging!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Jeez thats scary. I look forward to the screaming headlines in the Sun and Express as thousands of Brits are turned back at Malaga airport for not having the requisite documents. Out of interest, in the case of US citizens, do the airlines check that they have all of the required documents before they board the aircraft or is it pot luck at passport control when they arrive? Also why dont we Brits have to supply these documents when travelling to the USA? Do we have a separate agreement with the USA being outside Schengen?

What happened to this idea that was around a few months ago of an EU passport for Brits that wanted it after Brexit?

Visa waiver scheme and or electronic visa application or even a reciprocal rights will likely be the order of the day.

I think it is still knocking about in the halls of Brussels but I don't think it has any real chance or support.

 

[nortada]

Visa waiver scheme and or electronic visa application or even a reciprocal rights will likely be the order of the day.

I think it is still knocking about in the halls of Brussels but I don't think it has any real chance or support.

Please correct me if I am wrong but, from my American friends, I thought visas were a National rather than EU issue?

Schengen is a different kettle of fish and is all EU so when/if we leave the EU we will have to meet a countries visa requirement?

In simple terms, for us, if Portugal let’s us have a 6 month visa (no return for 6 months) game on.

 

[JNKScot]

Please correct me if I am wrong but, from my American friends, I thought visas were a National rather than EU issue?

Schengen Visa = EU?

 

[Birdseye]

would Brits with Portuguese Residencia be able to travel freely between Schengen States?

.

Residencia alone is not sufficient to enter the Schengen area but once inside there are no internal border controls to deal with. In that sense the EU is one single country.

 

[Stork_III]

Visa waiver scheme and or electronic visa application or even a reciprocal rights will likely be the order of the day.

I think it is still knocking about in the halls of Brussels but I don't think it has any real chance or support.

New EU Travel Authorisation Scheme (ETIAS) starts 1 Jan 2021, and will apply to those third countries currently not requiring Schengen Visa, so presumably UK.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-4362_en.htm

 

[macd]

Schengen Visa = EU?

That's the point, and has been for a quarter century or so.

(Actually Schengen Visa = Schengen area countries. The latter is EU minus UK, Ireland, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, and Romania, but including the three EEA countries. Notwithstanding that, some individual countries retain different visa arrangements under older bilateral treaties.)

 

[macd]

Q: "would Brits with Portuguese Residencia be able to travel freely between Schengen States?"

Residencia alone is not sufficient to enter the Schengen area but once inside there are no internal border controls to deal with. In that sense the EU is one single country.

You're right that travel may well be unhindered, but perhaps with 3rd country limits except in the specific country of residence.
See post #5.

 

[Sailfree]

I can only echo Notada's comments.



Schengen does not come into it once you get a residency certificate. Turn up at town hall with proof of address, passport and IIRC €12.


What Town hall did you go to? It wasn't that easy for me! Also with residency comes the question of taxation.

My understanding is that it's simple- at least it was for us.

After agreeing to buy the apartment the owner gave us a 12 mongh rental agreement to give me the status (utility Bill's etc) to register for residency. We turned up at the town hall and got a 5yr residency from Nazare. They only wanted to see fiscal number (NIF) passports and the rental agreement though.

After 2 months when I had the money to purchase I went to a lawyer and they pointed out that I had a 5yr residency granted by the Junta of Nazare (like a town council) and best to have one from the commune of Nazare! All strange to me but effectively that's more a small country council that covers other local towns and villages inc Nazare. Went to a building adjacent to first and again only needed NIF, passport and rental agreement and 5yr residency from Nazare Commune instantly granted.

FYI lawyer checked the property for debts. As debts in Portugal are against a property not the person (like boats in UK). Then turned up at Nazare Notary office where everyone sat around a big table with a big computer screen and Notary checked the title feeds and wrote a property purchase document specific to us , the seller and the property in front of us all.

Could not be more simple and straightforward.

My understanding is that property title in Portugal is rarely any dispute but can be questionable in Spain for a few.

WRT Taxation you must apply for Non Habitual Residency status within 12 months and under dual taxation treaty with UK you can become a tax resident of Portugal. Portugal effectively chooses not to tax you on pension income for 10yrs. Portugal considers you a tax resident if you spend most of the year in Portugal but beware the HMRC need you to also comply with certain very restrictive automatic residency tests in the first 3yrs. I registered with HMRC as a non resident landlord and must declare UK rental income for UK tax.

Its fairly straightforward but understandably the HMRC are wary of people trying to pretend to live in another country to avoid UK tax.

I did get a couple of phone calls on my Portuguese home phone from HMRC. Luckily we were in and not out shopping!

Trust this helps.

 

[Sailfree]

A question which is best ignored in Portugal.

Disagree - providing you comply with the rules it can be an advantage to be a tax resident of Portugal. See my post above.

 

[st599]

I think you are correct for an actual visa, not sure how it works if you are a third country national who doesn't require a visa, UK after Brexit?. May be the same?

Here is the calculator to go with the link you posted. https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/content/visa-calculator_en

The new visa waiver database will monitor it.

 

[nortada]

Hi Tranona,

I understand currently you are in the UK but I am well aware you are widly travelled so great that you are participating in these discussions.

We have debated the T2L saga at length and both agree that, despite authorities in Portugal and Croatia, occasionally demanding sight of, this form, it has no meaning in the context of VAT on UK boats in the EU.

The only good thing, a T2L is free and easy to obtain from HMRC Salford.

You can pull the form down, print it off and send to Salford and it will come back fully stamped up. One word to the wise, do not send your ship’s to paper to Salford. HMRC do not require any supporting documentation but if you sent it, you will not get it returned!

I have to wiz up to London, but on my return, I will dig out the link for the T2L form and post it on here.

Now back from London and as promised, the download for a C88/T2L Form and full details on completing it are at: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lag...ide-memoir-british-flagged-vessels-t1885.html.