UK Sailors And Expats In The EU - Run Up To Friday 29th March 2019 & Beyond?

[st599]

Could somebody explain how this works please? Does it mean that if you spend 90 days in the EU you must be out of the EU for the following 90 days? Or could it work like this. From Jan through March (90 days) you are in the UK and from Apr through June (90 days) you are on your boat in the Med. On 30th June you fly back to the UK and return to your boat 1 day later. You then spend July through Sept (90 days) on your boat and return to the UK for Oct through Dec (90 days). You have spent 2 periods of 90 days in 180 days in the EU. Does that satisfy the laws?

I ask this because we would be far more likely to spend the summer months in the Med than the winter months so it would suit us to have 2 consecutive periods of 90 days there

And what actually happens if you overstay your 90 days? Surely nobody will know until you go through passport control on leaving the EU? Do they arrest you at passport control or are you just banned from returning to the EU and if so for how long?

I deal with this often for some of our staff.

It's a rolling 180 day period - no more than 90 days in any given 180 day period. So no, if you tried to enter Schengen the day after your previous 90 day trip your Visa would be invalid.

Not that this will be an issue for a while as first few Schengen visas are single or double entry and take a while to process, you have to build up the systems confidence in you to get Multi Entry Visas.

 

[RobbieW]

As far as I understand it means that in any 180 period you can only be in a Schengen country for 90 of the days.

So, you could do 90 days on, 90 days off. Or every other week for a whole year say.

But not two periods of 90 days through the summer months with 180 days then outside the zone through winter.

Garold

hmm, the way I read it if you entered Schengen on Jan 1st, came home on the 2nd you have 88 days to use before June 30th. So if you depart Schengen on June 30th returning on July 1st you reset the clock and can stay another 90 days - I think this the way Americans etc handle the constraint today

 

[st599]

hmm, the way I read it if you entered Schengen on Jan 1st, came home on the 2nd you have 88 days to use before June 30th. So if you depart Schengen on June 30th returning on July 1st you reset the clock and can stay another 90 days - I think this the way Americans etc handle the constraint today

Not correct I'm afraid. It's 90 in any rolling 180 window.

So you couldn't use those 88 days and add them on to a longer summer trip.

"The notion of "any", implies the application of a "moving" 180-day reference period, looking backwards at each day of the stay (be it at the entry or at the day of an actual check), into the last 180-day period, in order to verify if the 90 days/180-day requirement continues to be fulfilled. "

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vi...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I deal with this often for some of our staff.

It's a rolling 180 day period - no more than 90 days in any given 180 day period. So no, if you tried to enter Schengen the day after your previous 90 day trip your Visa would be invalid.

Not that this will be an issue for a while as first few Schengen visas are single or double entry and take a while to process, you have to build up the systems confidence in you to get Multi Entry Visas.

Thanks. I thought my suggestion sounded too easy!

I see that May has made a unilateral offer on EU migrants in the UK today https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-migrants-right-remain-uk-no-deal-a8498746.html Does anyone think that is going to encourage the EU to reciprocate in kind and if so in what way?

 

[One A.]

Thanks. I thought my suggestion sounded too easy!

I see that May has made a unilateral offer on EU migrants in the UK today https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-migrants-right-remain-uk-no-deal-a8498746.html Does anyone think that is going to encourage the EU to reciprocate in kind and if so in what way?

I would imagine if you can prove you can support yourself Inc health care your host nation will be cool with you.

 

[cynthia]

So if I obtain a Carte Sejour for an extended (but not permanent) stay in France, can I also have an additional 90 day stay in another Schengan country without the 90 day obligation to be out of the Shengan zone? I don't seem to be able to find the answer to this anywhere.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

So if I obtain a Carte Sejour for an extended (but not permanent) stay in France, can I also have an additional 90 day stay in another Schengan country without the 90 day obligation to be out of the Shengan zone? I don't seem to be able to find the answer to this anywhere.

No and No the Carte de Sejour is for residency and by implication that means permanent you need to prove that you have an address and the means of support.
It is applicable to the country it's issued in, in my case and your example France, other countries have similar residence schemes.
There was a move to get those resident in EU countries a sort of EU residency I don't know how it is progressing though.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

No and No the Carte de Sejour is for residency and by implication that means permanent you need to prove that you have an address and the means of support.

Does that mean that all you have to do is buy a property in France in your own name? How do you prove means of support? And what does a Carte de Sejour entitle you to in terms of visiting rights and/or anything else?

 

[macd]

Modertors: why is this now in The Lounge? It is not idle chit chat over a brandy.

 

[cynthia]

As I understand it the Carte Sejour is not solely for permanent residency, but also for extended stays in excess of 90 days. We had one several years ago, but let it lapse after the initial 5 years as we were told it was no longer necessary. It is finding a solution to allowing us to sail in Greece in the spring months which is problematical! We remain UK residents and spend 183 days in the UK, having no desire to change that status.

 

[nortada]

CLEARLY THE MODS IGNORED MY REQUEST TO LEAVE THIS THREAD IN LIVEABOARD LINK

Therefore, I can only hope we can all exercise self-restraint and ring fence it to keep it on the subject of how Brits in the EU can best manage their futures post Brexit.

I am reporting this message and asked the Moderators to reconsider their actions and hopefully, as this thread will run, make it a sticky in Liveaboard Link or if that is unacceptable, a sticky in this forum and advise us their thinking.

Guys, would really appreciate your thoughts/support on this issue.

Thanks,

N

 

[cynthia]

Does that mean that all you have to do is buy a property in France in your own name? How do you prove means of support? And what does a Carte de Sejour entitle you to in terms of visiting rights and/or anything else?

remaininfrance.org is an excellent site. It will give you all the details of how to apply for a Carte Sejour and the minimum income requirements, which vary according to working/ non working details. Also requirement for health cover, necessary after the first year for an initial Carte, but not if you qualify for a permanent one after the initial 5 year period.

 

[One A.]

Does that mean that all you have to do is buy a property in France in your own name? How do you prove means of support? And what does a Carte de Sejour entitle you to in terms of visiting rights and/or anything else?

'How do you prove means of support?' Bank statements, as a home owner who is not seeking resident status a Carte de
Sejour is not needed.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

'How do you prove means of support?' Bank statements, as a home owner who is not seeking resident status a Carte de
Sejour is not needed.

Fr Hackett said you need to prove means of support above

 

[macd]

I see that May has made a unilateral offer on EU migrants in the UK today...

I'm not sure a "leaked cabinet document" quite amounts to that, but May (and other ministers) have periodically given the same undertaking. Even if there's otherwise no deal, it's hard to imagine a Brexit so inhumane as to have no such a provision on both sides.

As an aside, on the subject of Schengen visas: many posts here and elsewhere talk as though a Schengen (short stay) visa were a physical thing. In fact, for visitors from many countries, it isn't. It's simply granted and the terms deemed applied and accepted by the act of entering a Schengen country. I'd be surprised if the UK didn't end up in the more liberal category.

This link lists the countries whose citizens must and must not have a physical visa issued in advance: https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...olicy/apply_for_a_visa/docs/visa_lists_en.pdf

 

[Fr J Hackett]

As I understand it the Carte Sejour is not solely for permanent residency, but also for extended stays in excess of 90 days. We had one several years ago, but let it lapse after the initial 5 years as we were told it was no longer necessary. It is finding a solution to allowing us to sail in Greece in the spring months which is problematical! We remain UK residents and spend 183 days in the UK, having no desire to change that status.

You could probably swing it on the basis of owning property and showing that you were self supporting in France ie paying taxes and the usual household bills but one of the things that I had to prove was that I had medical care covered this I did through my carte vital which was granted via the S1 route and EH1C will not be sufficient I also have insurance.
My understanding is that it is for people that intend permanency not being half in half out, I suspect that if that came to light in the interview it would not be granted.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

'How do you prove means of support?' Bank statements, as a home owner who is not seeking resident status a Carte de
Sejour is not needed.

Exactly unless you intend to stay in the country ( this is when the UK is no longer a EU member and freedom of movement is not applicable) Most European countries have some form of residency permits for non EU nationals that wish to reside in the country.

 

[Stork_III]

Not correct I'm afraid. It's 90 in any rolling 180 window.

So you couldn't use those 88 days and add them on to a longer summer trip.

"The notion of "any", implies the application of a "moving" 180-day reference period, looking backwards at each day of the stay (be it at the entry or at the day of an actual check), into the last 180-day period, in order to verify if the 90 days/180-day requirement continues to be fulfilled. "

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vi...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

I think you are correct for an actual visa, not sure how it works if you are a third country national who doesn't require a visa, UK after Brexit?. May be the same?

Here is the calculator to go with the link you posted. https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/content/visa-calculator_en

 

[One A.]

I belive if you do intend to stay you have 6 months to get it sorted, or prove the necessary wheels are in motion..

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Does that mean that all you have to do is buy a property in France in your own name? How do you prove means of support? And what does a Carte de Sejour entitle you to in terms of visiting rights and/or anything else?

Regular income stream into a French bank account and tax payments, the CdJ gives non EU nationals the right to reside, ie residency it implies and I will bet anything that it will be interpreted as a degree of permanency ie not 180 days in and 180 days out. It does not give you the right to residency in another EU country or extension of Shengan travel it is purely a basis of affirming your residency as a holiday home owner you will not need it nor will it benefit you in the very remote chance that a functionaire granted one.

Here is the official position.

https://www.remaininfrance.org/carte-de-sejour.html