UK Navy captures Somali pirates

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Another vote for "the Russian Way".

The Russian treatment its OK by me

 

[Wandering Star]

Reading the Chandlers book, it didn't appear there were any Warlords, each gang of pirates worked for themselves. I'd support the Russkies solution.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[VADROUILLE]

They havent done anything positive. Capturing them, taking away their AK47s and then letting them go free is simply a waste of effort and money.

They should do what they used to do with privateers - string them up. It might just be a disincentive to piracy.

Maybe you should read my posts and then you may understand how the system works. Remember that saying, "innocent untill proven guilty" if there is no evidence to be had on these people how can anybody touch them? Its all down to human rights.

There are men and women out there right now who have been away from there families for months on end providing a service all organsied by NATO. You try telling them they are doing nothing to there face. Most people are proud of what our boys and girls do away from home, you should be too!

Everything we do out there is all organised from dry land in the comfort of an office, we do as we are told as its what we are paid for.

We dont risk our lives because we choose to, its because we feel that we do make a difference, whether it be anti piracy in the indian ocean or catching drug smugglers in the carribean.

 

[Tanqueray]

.
You are the most negative impossible to please bunch of miserable gits that ever walked a forum.

Nothing but moan moan moan about how the Navy never does anything , and when they do something positive no-one has anything good to say either



- W

I'm with you Webby, a fine result for the British Royal Navy!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Maybe you should read my posts and then you may understand how the system works. Remember that saying, "innocent untill proven guilty" if there is no evidence to be had on these people how can anybody touch them? Its all down to human rights.

There are men and women out there right now who have been away from there families for months on end providing a service all organsied by NATO. You try telling them they are doing nothing to there face. Most people are proud of what our boys and girls do away from home, you should be too!

Everything we do out there is all organised from dry land in the comfort of an office, we do as we are told as its what we are paid for.

We dont risk our lives because we choose to, its because we feel that we do make a difference, whether it be anti piracy in the indian ocean or catching drug smugglers in the carribean.

There is no need to be defensive even after the Iranian patrol boat debacle. Its quite clear that you are stuck with all sorts of constraints that prevent any really effective response to piracy so no one is blaming the RN as such. But the fact remains that after all these years and all the money spent keeping you out there , the problem remains. The combined efforts of the civilised west has failed to clear out the pirate gangs in the way that the Navy did elsewhere a few centuries ago. Its farcical.

You may hope that "most people are proud of what our boys and girls do" but I suspect the reality is rather different. Certainly there was no reason to be proud of what the pongos achieved in Iraq and their having to be bailed out by the yanks.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

I'm with you Webby, a fine result for the British Royal Navy!

You know the flag that Navy boats fly, it that the union flag, ie representing all the parts of the UK equally ?

Or is it........

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Throughout history societies have tried various methods for dealing with criminals.

We've hung them, we've drawn and quartered them, we've put their heads on poles and we've left them to starve and rot in cages. They've been beaten, deported, locked up, they've had their hands cut off, they've been shot, guillotined, injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, humiliated in public in the stocks, public executions ...... need I go on?

Well it doesn't seem to be working, none of it. They haven't gone away.

It might make us all feel a bit better to see swift and deadly justice administered and posted on YouTube, but there will be more criminals to take their place.

IMHO, two things need to be done. The first is to make it uneconomical for the pirates to continue. The second is to educate the would-be-pirates that they'd be better off fishing.

I believe that is exactly what RFA Fort Victoria and all the others are doing out there.

In the global scale of things, what does it really matter if a few pirates get dumped back in their lawless country? (minus boat, guns and supplies)

Dead people serve no purpose - they and their deeds are quickly forgotten. They are replaced by the next one, who believes he is smarter, better or luckier - look how many deaths the rival drug gangs are clocking up in Mexico, they don't seem to deter each other.

If the pirates are returned to shore having lost their investment, there is no vacancy for another would be pirate to step up and replace them. They can choose to find the money and re-invest, but if they keep losing it then eventually they'll retire. Every pirate killed is a job vacancy for every would-be pirate sitting ashore, and one ship where a ransom is paid is like a lottery win. By removing the gangs already operating, we're creating job opportunities for the next wave.

Beat them with economics, not violence.

 

[GrahamM376]

Throughout history societies have tried various methods for dealing with criminals.

We've hung them, we've drawn and quartered them, we've put their heads on poles and we've left them to starve and rot in cages. They've been beaten, deported, locked up, they've had their hands cut off, they've been shot, guillotined, injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, humiliated in public in the stocks, public executions ...... need I go on?

Well it doesn't seem to be working, none of it. They haven't gone away.

Possibly because we've stopped doing all of the above?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Throughout history societies have tried various methods for dealing with criminals.

We've hung them, we've drawn and quartered them, we've put their heads on poles and we've left them to starve and rot in cages. They've been beaten, deported, locked up, they've had their hands cut off, they've been shot, guillotined, injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, humiliated in public in the stocks, public executions ...... need I go on?

Well it doesn't seem to be working, none of it. They haven't gone away.

It might make us all feel a bit better to see swift and deadly justice administered and posted on YouTube, but there will be more criminals to take their place.

IMHO, two things need to be done. The first is to make it uneconomical for the pirates to continue. The second is to educate the would-be-pirates that they'd be better off fishing.

I believe that is exactly what RFA Fort Victoria and all the others are doing out there.

In the global scale of things, what does it really matter if a few pirates get dumped back in their lawless country? (minus boat, guns and supplies)

Dead people serve no purpose - they and their deeds are quickly forgotten. They are replaced by the next one, who believes he is smarter, better or luckier - look how many deaths the rival drug gangs are clocking up in Mexico, they don't seem to deter each other.

If the pirates are returned to shore having lost their investment, there is no vacancy for another would be pirate to step up and replace them. They can choose to find the money and re-invest, but if they keep losing it then eventually they'll retire. Every pirate killed is a job vacancy for every would-be pirate sitting ashore, and one ship where a ransom is paid is like a lottery win. By removing the gangs already operating, we're creating job opportunities for the next wave.

Beat them with economics, not violence.

Hear hear!

 

[Sybarite]

Come on smile

Haven't bothered seeing how to insert the smilies in the text. When I click they go to the title. Will this do?

 

[OGITD]

I thought that’s what I said!

pirates get dumped back in their lawless country? (minus boat, guns and supplies)

If the pirates are returned to shore having lost their investment, there is no vacancy for another would be pirate to step up and replace them. They can choose to find the money and re-invest, but if they keep losing it then eventually they'll retire. Every pirate killed is a job vacancy for every would-be pirate sitting ashore, and one ship where a ransom is paid is like a lottery win. By removing the gangs already operating, we're creating job opportunities for the next wave.

Beat them with economics, not violence.

Great minds...... cheers Baggy

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Possibly because we've stopped doing all of the above?

Or possibly because our ancestors came to the conclusion that it doesn't work?

If the logic that fear of death deters behaviour is true, then why does each new generation bring with it more base jumpers, free climbers, bungee jumpers etc. Why does anyone sign up to join the armed forces?

Simply because, whether the activity is legal or not, no-one believes it will happen to them.

Why do people play the lottery? Logic and probability indicate that as an individual, you will not win, but each week someone does - we're a hopelessly optimistic species.

 

[VADROUILLE]

There is no need to be defensive even after the Iranian patrol boat debacle. Its quite clear that you are stuck with all sorts of constraints that prevent any really effective response to piracy so no one is blaming the RN as such. But the fact remains that after all these years and all the money spent keeping you out there , the problem remains. The combined efforts of the civilised west has failed to clear out the pirate gangs in the way that the Navy did elsewhere a few centuries ago. Its farcical.

You may hope that "most people are proud of what our boys and girls do" but I suspect the reality is rather different. Certainly there was no reason to be proud of what the pongos achieved in Iraq and their having to be bailed out by the yanks.

Ok, well you have your thoughts on this and it looks like i cant change them. But just so you know, during my trip on RFA Fort Vic last year we rescued the crew of the Monte Cristo in conjunction with the yanks (google search will bring that up).


http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/October/12/111012-GF-RFA-Freed-Sailors

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/October/20/111020-Third-Major-Blow


We also saved a mans life from another merchant vessel as his apendix had burst and luckily the Fort Vic had a full hospital ward made up on board to deal with operations like this.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/October/19/111019-GF-FTVA-Medical


Another incident was the capture of 5 or 6 (cant remember the exact number) pirates that where to be sentanced in the seychelles due to overwhelming evidence held against them.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/December/01/111201-Fort-Vic-pirates

As well as successfully destroying any arms/fuel or boats that we conviscated.

A lot of stuff we do out there does not get mentioned in the press and when it does its normally wrong.

With the crew of the monte cristo we returned the sailors to there families with no loss of life, and no ransom was payed to the pirates which i would think fuels there pirate attacks.

We may not be getting rid of the pirates but at least we are policing it. Its better than letting them roam free. We have had a police force in the uk for years and years but crime still exists. Its a fact of life, there will allways be bad people out there.


Im not trying to impress people with good news i just try to educate people in what we are really doing over there. Its not fair on people like me if people are making judgements on the RN/RFA with false information.

I also understand that this is a forum and everyone is intitled to fredom of spech. I do respect that. And thats all i have to say on the matter.

 

[Koeketiene]

A lot of stuff we do out there does not get mentioned in the press, and normally what does get mentioned in the press is wrong.

Leave it - good news doesn't sell.
MANW PAO only gets questions when there are rumours we've killed some pirates.

And the average forumite on here only remembers 2 stories about the navy: the Chandlers & the RIB in Iran.

 

[webcraft]

And the average forumite on here only remembers 2 stories about the navy: the Chandlers & the RIB in Iran.

Guapa, sometimes I think you have as jaundiced a view about the 'average forumite' as I do

- W

 

[Sandyman]

Certainly there was no reason to be proud of what the pongos achieved in Iraq and their having to be bailed out by the yanks.

Another tangent ? Why bring the pongos in Iraq into a debate about the RN chasing pirates
in the Gulf. To prove what point ?

 

[Sandyman]

Beat them with economics, not violence.

Well said Sir.

Plenty of gung-ho hang em high merchants on here. Wonder what their attitude would be if they had to pull the trigger ? Answer me that.

 

[te2070]

Throughout history societies have tried various methods for dealing with criminals.

We've hung them, we've drawn and quartered them, we've put their heads on poles and we've left them to starve and rot in cages. They've been beaten, deported, locked up, they've had their hands cut off, they've been shot, guillotined, injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, humiliated in public in the stocks, public executions ...... need I go on?

Well it doesn't seem to be working, none of it. They haven't gone away.

It might make us all feel a bit better to see swift and deadly justice administered and posted on YouTube, but there will be more criminals to take their place.

IMHO, two things need to be done. The first is to make it uneconomical for the pirates to continue. The second is to educate the would-be-pirates that they'd be better off fishing.

I believe that is exactly what RFA Fort Victoria and all the others are doing out there.

In the global scale of things, what does it really matter if a few pirates get dumped back in their lawless country? (minus boat, guns and supplies)

Dead people serve no purpose - they and their deeds are quickly forgotten. They are replaced by the next one, who believes he is smarter, better or luckier - look how many deaths the rival drug gangs are clocking up in Mexico, they don't seem to deter each other.

If the pirates are returned to shore having lost their investment, there is no vacancy for another would be pirate to step up and replace them. They can choose to find the money and re-invest, but if they keep losing it then eventually they'll retire. Every pirate killed is a job vacancy for every would-be pirate sitting ashore, and one ship where a ransom is paid is like a lottery win. By removing the gangs already operating, we're creating job opportunities for the next wave.

Beat them with economics, not violence.

totally agree

the only long term solution can come from somali itself, which like the rest of africa is tribal with vicious fighting between the tribes & the only country who seem able to manage these warring tribes are the chinese - but then they dont care about the human rights - just the profit

 

[GrahamM376]

Im not trying to impress people with good news i just try to educate people in what we are really doing over there. Its not fair on people like me if people are making judgements on the RN/RFA with false information.

I have no criticism whatsoever for the navy or the crews or the work they do. It's the rules of engagement which are beyond their control which seem to be the problem in many cases.

It will be interesting to see how the newly armed merchantmen perform. Having met a few ex service personnel who have done work overseas in a private capacity, I doubt they will show as much restraint if attacked.

 

[OGITD]

Steady on!

And the average forumite on here only remembers 2 stories about the navy: (

I remember loads of stories (dits) about the RN….. some of them not even funny!

Anyway it’s nearly sail & beer time…. lift-in soon!