Ugly or what?

[Laminar Flow]

Whilst I prefer the build quality of some not so new boats would it be fair to say the new boats handle more dingy like so have that fun element ?
Some of these 42ft boats are claimed to be doing speeds in light winds faster than I could ever go !

To be fair, how are these boats being used? Racing or cruising? What are the relative speeds. A modern boat has a WL as long as the length overall or nearly so - reserve buoyancy in the bow be dammed. Those that plane have to be super light.

If you don't have a penchant for freeze-dried food & the scintillating ambiance of plastic crockery, like to carry a modest wine selection around with you, tools to fix something if it breaks, a proper dinghy with an outboard, business-like ground tackle, perhaps with an all chain rode, some form of land transport and not to mention, supplies & gear for a nice, say, three month cruise, I doubt that you will find that relative speeds are at all that different and you are likely better off with a hull designed to carry that load in the first place.

Of two boats with the same sail area/displacement ratio, the heavier one will actually be faster in light airs; up to a relative speed of 0.7 certainly and up to 1.0 probably.

We've had these discussions before. The fact that you can sleep in the back of your zippy Audi station wagon does not make it an RV, to use the much-loved automotive comparative.

A fortnight holiday charter in the Med is a completely different thing from a two month expedition to the Shetlands. For the latter give me a solid sea boat that will look after me when I'm down or just being stupid, a bow that keeps most of the water off the deck and a roof over my head so that my hands don't go all numb and shrivelly.

 

[pvb]

A fortnight holiday charter in the Med is a completely different thing from a two month expedition to the Shetlands. For the latter give me a solid sea boat that will look after me when I'm down or just being stupid, a bow that keeps most of the water off the deck and a roof over my head so that my hands don't go all numb and shrivelly.

Let's guess then. Would your recommendation be a Colvic Watson?

 

[Laminar Flow]

Let's guess then. Would your recommendation be a Colvic Watson?

No, not necessarily. It really depends on how you like to sail and a standard Watson doesn't do that very well.

 

[pvb]

No, not necessarily. It really depends on how you like to sail and a standard Watson doesn't do that very well.

So which boats would you recommend?

 

[dunedin]

A fortnight holiday charter in the Med is a completely different thing from a two month expedition to the Shetlands. For the latter give me a solid sea boat that will look after me when I'm down or just being stupid, a bow that keeps most of the water off the deck and a roof over my head so that my hands don't go all numb and shrivelly.

But most of the boats you see sailing around up north are the same sort of boats sailing elsewhere - a mix of older boats and newer boats of all types. And the ones going out into a F7+ forecast are generally the charter boats (and the French) in the Jeanneau’s and Beneteau’s and Bavaria’s.

 

[Laminar Flow]

So which boats would you recommend?

The Dutch have quite a few that would suit, money no object of course: Puffin 37 or 41 for example.
The Bestevears perhaps, although perhaps a bit too expeditionary.

Then there are the German Sirius yachts and I wouldn't mind having a closer look at the Moody DS series.

I have owned and ocean cruised a 50' lifting keel, twin rudder and engined cutter (with inside steering) which I had a hand in designing and building. I am no longer interested in the maintenance of a large vessel or acres of varnished wood or a teak deck.
But I would never again own a boat without covered steering.

I think "ryanroberts" Fjord 33 (?) is well on the way to being a good boat and it is a real shame that there are not (any) more well-designed smaller (under 35') cruising boats with a decent wheelhouse built these days.

Until my rich uncle in America (whom I've unfortunately never heard of) dies and leaves me everything, I'll make do and continue turning my Watson into a sailboat.

To use the automotive analogy again: there are not may RVs about that were inspired by formula 1 racing.

 

[Laminar Flow]

But most of the boats you see sailing around up north are the same sort of boats sailing elsewhere - a mix of older boats and newer boats of all types. And the ones going out into a F7+ forecast are generally the charter boats (and the French) in the Jeanneau’s and Beneteau’s and Bavaria’s.

One uses the tools one has; it doesn't necessarily mean they are the best tool for the job.

 

[convey]

But I would never again own a boat without covered steering.

I'd really like a small boat with a semi-reclined, covered steering position. Something like a cross between a Havsfidra/Jouet Golif (another fugly wonder) and Jester. I have no idea why boats have such large cockpits except that they are not for sailing.

I think Hasler had a good stab at a real sailing boat with the North Atlantic 29, also here, but it was so popular, that it's virtually unknown today. He went for a separate, enclosed saddled seating position but I'm thinking more like a hammock with helicopter-style foot rudders may be.

Something I don't have to get out of my sleeping position to sail.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I'd really like a small boat with a semi-reclined, covered steering position. Something like a cross between a Havsfidra/Jouet Golif (another fugly wonder) and Jester. I have no idea why boats have such large cockpits except that they are not for sailing.

I think Hasler had a good stab at a real sailing boat with the North Atlantic 29, also here, but it was so popular, that it's virtually unknown today. He went for a separate, enclosed saddled seating position but I'm thinking more like a hammock with helicopter-style foot rudders may be.

Something I don't have to get out of my sleeping position to sail.

Yes, that is an interesting boat. A young Australian couple took one through the North-West passage a couple of years ago.

What I would miss is what you have with many deck salon or some wheel house models and that is the pleasure of watching the world go by in harbour or at anchor from the comfort of the salon or wheel house as we have on our current boat.

Many older and traditional designs, while beautiful and elegant to behold tend to be a bit of a dark mahogany cave down below. In this respect many of the new designs have made much progress and while I appreciate the trend towards a more spacious and light interior, some have all the seaworthiness of an urban flat.

 

[Elessar]

To be fair, how are these boats being used? Racing or cruising? What are the relative speeds. A modern boat has a WL as long as the length overall or nearly so - reserve buoyancy in the bow be dammed. Those that plane have to be super light.

If you don't have a penchant for freeze-dried food & the scintillating ambiance of plastic crockery, like to carry a modest wine selection around with you, tools to fix something if it breaks, a proper dinghy with an outboard, business-like ground tackle, perhaps with an all chain rode, some form of land transport and not to mention, supplies & gear for a nice, say, three month cruise, I doubt that you will find that relative speeds are at all that different and you are likely better off with a hull designed to carry that load in the first place.

Of two boats with the same sail area/displacement ratio, the heavier one will actually be faster in light airs; up to a relative speed of 0.7 certainly and up to 1.0 probably.

We've had these discussions before. The fact that you can sleep in the back of your zippy Audi station wagon does not make it an RV, to use the much-loved automotive comparative.

A fortnight holiday charter in the Med is a completely different thing from a two month expedition to the Shetlands. For the latter give me a solid sea boat that will look after me when I'm down or just being stupid, a bow that keeps most of the water off the deck and a roof over my head so that my hands don't go all numb and shrivelly.

No one has said not to get the right boat. It’s just most people don’t do a 3 month cruise to the shetlands. They just hope to. And get a compromised boat just in case. Seems daft to me.

 

[Elessar]

I have no idea why boats have such large cockpits

seriously?

that’s where you eat, relax and socialise.
Which is what a boat is for. For most people.

 

[Tomahawk]

To me.. this is the way to go about it..

Fast and designed to be sailed short handed..

 

[Skylark]

Silly comments like this

Bla bla bla ..........new designs..................some have all the seaworthiness of an urban flat.

cast doubts over the credibility of your other assertions

Bla bla bla ..............I have owned and ocean cruised a 50' ........cutter.........which I had a hand in designing and building.

?

 

[doug748]

Has appeal, built for the job.



In my view, not much in common with the heavy, bulky motorsailer shown in post 1. Though that is built for a job as well.

I saw a Luffe 45 in the marina yesterday, it looked like an Arab yearling compared to the usual assortment of ragman's cart horses next to it. So it can be done:




Shame they did not fit a tiller and single rudder. I expect if I can find half a million they would do that for me : -)


.

 

[fredrussell]

They did offer an aft cabin on the Fulmar but they dropped it due to lack of sales. Problem with aft cabins on small boats is it generally takes away from the galley often means no chart table and, worst of all a very pokey bench saloon. Sometimes even the dreaded linear galley.

.

Small boats? Cheeky blighter! I see what you’re saying about losing chart table etc though. When I was sailing what I would call small boats (sub 25ft) I dreamed of the day I would own an aft-cabined boat. Got one now and the thrill has yet to wear off. Simple things eh?

 

[LONG_KEELER]

To me.. this is the way to go about it..

Fast and designed to be sailed short handed..

Marina parking in a wind might be a challenge.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But most of the boats you see sailing around up north are the same sort of boats sailing elsewhere - a mix of older boats and newer boats of all types. And the ones going out into a F7+ forecast are generally the charter boats (and the French) in the Jeanneau’s and Beneteau’s and Bavaria’s.

My perception is that when you get north of Ardnamurchan the number of modern anonymous white things drops dramatically and the number of traditional looking things goes up. If that's right then there could be several reasons for it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

One uses the tools one has; it doesn't necessarily mean they are the best tool for the job.

And if one's charter ends in a week, one gets the boat back even if one has to throw up all the way ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Many older and traditional designs, while beautiful and elegant to behold tend to be a bit of a dark mahogany cave down below. In this respect many of the new designs have made much progress and while I appreciate the trend towards a more spacious and light interior, some have all the seaworthiness of an urban flat.

I agree about the cave, but the experience of living inside a cigar box is not intrinsic to older designs. It's what customers wanted at the time. and so it's how they were decorated. My boat, being designed by an American (Chuck Paine) has the typical American mix of varnished wood and white panels below, so although she is relatively small and the cabin relatively narrow, it doesn't feel too cramped.

 

[convey]

I tended to prefer it as "living inside a Chippendale". Sounds a bit better than a cigar box.

Of course, with new glues and materials perhaps new solutions can arise that allow for a lot more light. I was reading, those boats cost about £250,000 each and are listed by Sunsail as "perfect for first time sailors"? (The 20' are about £50,000).

That's gone from "caravan on keels" to "price of a house on keels", and bigger than most new one bedroom flats.

Whew. Well, I guess the delivery boys and girls had good fun distributing them around the globe.

Do those things right themselves if they flip? Or are they just difficult to do so? Sorry, zero knowledge of the new trends in design but intuitively they just don't seem right. Do they work on a skipping stone theory?

Looks? At least it looks less than a sport shoe that some 1980s boats. I tend to agree with Laminar, for that sort of money, at least with our climate, I'd want a hard top on it. But I see what that they are intended to be used for is floating luxury apartments, on azure still waters, at the pretty end of the Med or Caribbean.

Even if I had the money, it's not the way I would go. It sounds boring and is clearly for people who pay to have others clean up after them.

I thought they called that an axe bow. I like it from a looks point of view but I suspect it is just a current fad, e.g. Steve Job's final creation ($100,000,000+).