Ugly or what?

[LONG_KEELER]

I tended to prefer it as "living inside a Chippendale". Sounds a bit better than a cigar box.

Of course, with new glues and materials perhaps new solutions can arise that allow for a lot more light. I was reading, those boats cost about £250,000 each and are listed by Sunsail as "perfect for first time sailors"? (The 20' are about £50,000).

That's gone from "caravan on keels" to "price of a house on keels", and bigger than most new one bedroom flats.

Whew. Well, I guess the delivery boys and girls had good fun distributing them around the globe.

Do those things right themselves if they flip? Or are they just difficult to do so? Sorry, zero knowledge of the new trends in design but intuitively they just don't seem right. Do they work on a skipping stone theory?

Looks? At least it looks less than a sport shoe that some 1980s boats. I tend to agree with Laminar, for that sort of money, at least with our climate, I'd want a hard top on it. But I see what that they are intended to be used for is floating luxury apartments, on azure still waters, at the pretty end of the Med or Caribbean.

Even if I had the money, it's not the way I would go. It sounds boring and is clearly for people who pay to have others clean up after them.

I thought they called that an axe bow. I like it from a looks point of view but I suspect it is just a current fad, e.g. Steve Job's final creation ($100,000,000+).

21st Century Art Deco ?

Funny that nature hardly ever draws straight lines but us humans seem to like them.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I agree about the cave, but the experience of living inside a cigar box is not intrinsic to older designs. It's what customers wanted at the time. and so it's how they were decorated. My boat, being designed by an American (Chuck Paine) has the typical American mix of varnished wood and white panels below, so although she is relatively small and the cabin relatively narrow, it doesn't feel too cramped.

The model for the English idea of a yacht interior came from Edwardian mahogany paneling, the American from sponsoring racing schooners that went fishing in the off (racing) season. Fishermen went more for paint which was easier to maintain than heavy beading and dark tropicals.

 

[Laminar Flow]

To me.. this is the way to go about it..

Fast and designed to be sailed short handed..

Trust me, I can see the appeal of speed, but that is not the type of sailing we do. For one, the 4 m+ draft of your featured model would severely restrict it's use for us.

We are cruisers or as another has said, "travelers by water". In this context we manage to slow-cruise 1300 - 1600 miles each year, not always in fair weather. Last season we visited over 40 different places and this year, pre-covid, Scotland, Ireland and possibly the Shetlands, had been on plan.

I want a boat that reflects what is essentially a romantic endeavour, is practical, can be handled by myself, is seaworthy and provides a degree of comfort while being small enough to keep the maintenance in check.

My wife, who was not exactly popped out of the mold of the tough-as-leather, salt water pickled, Tabarly-heroic ocean racer, is still happy to come sailing with me.
It doesn't get better than that.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Be that all as it may, the OP's question was whether you would charter this boat and that is a whole different ball of wax than owning it.

At the end of your holiday you get to hand it back and hopefully receive the full amount of your damage deposit in return. It is unlikely you will be doing any night passages or even cooking at sea and if you get wet, you'll be drying out twenty miles down the road at the latest. Anything breaks, you call the charter company and they send some bloke to fix it. No unpleasantness fixing a bunged-up head in tropical scenery, not for you, the customer.
Who cares if the teak deck peels up after ten years or the head door jambs shut on a port tack.

I doubt that most charterers have a personal attachment to a particular type of boat, as long as it suits, the ambience was alright and the thing looks impressive enough in the pics after.

A friend of mine was one of the delivery boys when the French government had this tax scheme where you bought a yacht and sent it into the charter trade for ten years. You then deducted your Benny from your dentistry income and after ten years you got her back. Except after ten years in the trade the poor girl was completely clapped out and quite likely on the wrong side of the world.

 

[Stemar]

Who cares if the ... the head door jambs shut on a port tack.

Me, if I'm stuck inside - or need to get inside in a hurry.

But I see your point. Some will go for a fast skimming dish, others, including me, would prefer something a bit more staid, with a comfortable motion in a blow or a bumpy anchorage, but If I'm chartering, I'll take what I can get for my price. I could probably charter a classic wooden job that's a joy to behold, but my Yorkshire wallet's unlikely to enjoy the experience, so I'll settle for an AWB.

 

[Frogmogman]

A friend of mine was one of the delivery boys when the French government had this tax scheme where you bought a yacht and sent it into the charter trade for ten years. You then deducted your Benny from your dentistry income and after ten years you got her back. Except after ten years in the trade the poor girl was completely clapped out and quite likely on the wrong side of the world.

Ah, the old "Loi Pons". It was introduced in 1986 as a well intentioned first attempt by the French government at a défiscalisation scheme to encourage investment in the overseas departments of France As you correctly surmise, the law wasn't tightly enough framed, and there was a huge amount of abuse of the system, so it was replaced in 2001 with schemes that did more to aid the local economy in those departments than in helping the rich of metropolitan France to swerve taxes, buying boats and the like at the expense of the taxpayer.

 

[geem]

You are a wise sailor Scala.

Boats fall somewhere on the “best in extreme conditions” - “best to live on/live with” scale

Many modern boats are nearer the live with end. Because that’s how most people use them.

Many who buy the boats capable of extreme sailing do so as they imagine that’s what they will do. They end up sailing less, as friends and partners don’t like the compromise.

And even modern, comfortable boats can sail the Atlantic. Not as well as a long keeler but even globe trotters spend more time at anchor than sailing.

So compromising the sailing bit for comfort is a wise choice for most people.

The option is you buy a larger older design. You get the great sailing performance and the space you would expect on a larger boat. Ok you dont get four double cabins but unless you intend to charter who needs four double cabins? What you do get is a walk in engine room, water and fuel tanks under the cabin sole so a huge amount of storage. Lots of lead ballast in an encapulated keel, huge deck hardware and a sea kindly motion. Just sailed back from the Caribbean in our 40 year old 44ft boat with no breakages. Antigua to Azores 19 days. Azores to Cork 9 days. Back in UK now. Just wife and me onboard ?.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The option is you buy a larger older design. You get the great sailing performance and the space you would expect on a larger boat. Ok you dont get four double cabins but unless you intend to charter who needs four double cabins? What you do get is a walk in engine room, water and fuel tanks under the cabin sole so a huge amount of storage. Lots of lead ballast in an encapulated keel, huge deck hardware and a sea kindly motion. Just sailed back from the Caribbean in our 40 year old 44ft boat with no breakages. Antigua to Azores 19 days. Azores to Cork 9 days. Back in UK now. Just wife and me onboard ?.

It's a good debate with no single right answer; it's all down the the owner's use. For me... I'd never contemplate that voyage so buying a particular boat because it could do it in safety and comfort, is pointless. I didn't want an older boat because of the unknowns of maintenance (and other less well defined factors to do with lavatories). I wanted an affordable boat that sailed well in moderate conditions, that I could manoeuvre easily, which was spacious and bright to live on for a week or so at at a time, and which suited evening sundowners in the marina...! Ditto for my charter holidays. The modern 42-45' boats by Beneteau / Jeanneau / Bavaria / Dufour / Hanse etc fit the bill.

 

[Skylark]

.Just sailed back from the Caribbean in our 40 year old 44ft boat with no breakages. Antigua to Azores 19 days. Azores to Cork 9 days. Back in UK now. Just wife and me onboard ?.

Glad to read that you’ve arrived safely into Europe waters. Many congratulations and welcome home.

As a generalisation and not aimed at anyone in particular, it’s amazing how threads about AWB quickly get converted by the ardent few into extolling the benefits of MAB while disparaging all else.?

As the owner of an AWB I’m really pleased that you like your boats. There’s plenty of room at sea for us all to admire and appreciate each other’s choices but it really does get tedious to read the evangelical preaching that older is better. It isn’t. ?

Vive la difference!

 

[Frogmogman]

As a generalisation and not aimed at anyone in particular, it’s amazing how threads about AWB quickly get converted by the ardent few into extolling the benefits of MAB while disparaging all else.?

Not forgetting that todays' AWB will become the MAB of the future........

 

[geem]

Glad to read that you’ve arrived safely into Europe waters. Many congratulations and welcome home.

As a generalisation and not aimed at anyone in particular, it’s amazing how threads about AWB quickly get converted by the ardent few into extolling the benefits of MAB while disparaging all else.?

As the owner of an AWB I’m really pleased that you like your boats. There’s plenty of room at sea for us all to admire and appreciate each other’s choices but it really does get tedious to read the evangelical preaching that older is better. It isn’t. ?

Vive la difference!

 

[geem]

Where was my post disparaging to AWB? Just pointing out another option. You only need to look around harbours and marinas to see that people have totally different ideas about the perfect boat. I bought my boat to do a certain kind of sailing. 25,000 nm in the last 6 years and no regrets. I dont keep my boat in a marina. Its not an aspect of sailing I enjoy. I have a boat optimised for my kind of sailing and I am very happy with it. I am sure you are just as happy with your choice.

 

[Skylark]

Where was my post disparaging to AWB? Just pointing out another option. You only need to look around harbours and marinas to see that people have totally different ideas about the perfect boat. I bought my boat to do a certain kind of sailing. 25,000 nm in the last 6 years and no regrets. I dont keep my boat in a marina. Its not an aspect of sailing I enjoy. I have a boat optimised for my kind of sailing and I am very happy with it. I am sure you are just as happy with your choice.

...........and I don’t like football. I could never understand why people want to kick a ball around, even less that people want to watch others kicking all ball around. Seems all rather pointless and futile to me. Oh, wait a minutes, it’s got nothing to do with the question posed in the OP. Never mind, I’ll impose my view on everyone else, anyhow. Me, me, me, eh? ?

And I did say “as a generalisation, not aimed at anyone in particular” ☹

Suggesting that a modern design has the seaworthiness of an urban flat seems just a tad disparaging........and exceedingly childish.

 

[Skylark]

Not forgetting that todays' AWB will become the MAB of the future........

That’s me done for ? Looks like I’ll be eating humble pie in 2060. ?

 

[cherod]

what is an AWB and a MAB ? ( kiss )

 

[ryanroberts]

what is an AWB and a MAB ? ( kiss )

It took me a while to decode.. Average White Boat - Mouldy Auld Boat.

 

[cherod]

maybe a bit more likely than my assumption of All weather boat and something about man overboard !!

 

[Laminar Flow]

...........and I don’t like football. I could never understand why people want to kick a ball around, even less that people want to watch others kicking all ball around. Seems all rather pointless and futile to me. Oh, wait a minutes, it’s got nothing to do with the question posed in the OP. Never mind, I’ll impose my view on everyone else, anyhow. Me, me, me, eh? ?

And I did say “as a generalisation, not aimed at anyone in particular” ☹

Suggesting that a modern design has the seaworthiness of an urban flat seems just a tad disparaging........and exceedingly childish.

A friend of mine helped bring back a Hunter 50 from Hawaii. Most of the crew slept on the floor as the boat didn't have a single decent sea berth. This is a boat clearly designed for harbour hopping, something that is a bit difficult to do on a 3500 mile crossing.
None the less the manufacturer suggests the boat is suitable for offshore cruising (???).

My point was that many contemporary interiors are designed for that, harbour hopping, and that is just fine for the sailors that do that kind of sailing. They are less suitable for life at sea.

Those who seem to have trouble participating in what is essentially (to me at least) a technical discourse and feel they have to get abusive may want to move over to the lounge.

 

[Skylark]

Those who seem to have trouble participating in what is essentially (to me at least) a technical discourse and feel they have to get abusive may want to move over to the lounge.

Have you read the OP and its Poll?

It has nothing to do with essentially a technical discourse. Why not start a thread about 40 year old boats and I’ll promise not to post ?

I saw this brand new Sunsail Boat today along with some of her sisters already in the water. I wonder what you think of the aesthetics? It does not show well in the photo but it has a reverse bow.

Poll above
View attachment 93671

 

[flaming]

When I first saw the boat in the OP in a Sunsail press release I sent a couple of messages to Sunsail skippers that I know. As a rule the Sunsail skippers have always liked the F40s that this replaces, certainly much more than the Sunfast 37s that they in turn replaced. The general consensus was that the new boat was ugly, and likely to be considerably slower than the F40s.
I'm given to understand that the second part of that verdict is being revised. Seems it's a surprisingly quick boat. The first part is another matter. It's not the best looking boat out there but I can think of uglier boats...