Tyresome question....

[Fr J Hackett]

Possibly.

But if it is, it was documented twaddle, derived, mostly from the burst of US Highway safety agency research that followed the Bridgestone tire/Ford Explorer rollover fatality epidemic and subsequent legal action, which long predated AI.

The boot polish suggestion admittedly comes from The Worlds Fastest Indian and may only be a cosmetic effect, then again it may not. I doubt its ever been formally tested.

(Wasn't Kiwi, though Munro was from NZ. Some antipodean brand I forget)

There are "official" protectants that claim to resist UV (and perhaps ozone?) damage (Aerospace 303 IIRC, for example) that might have been formally tested, though if they have I doubt the results are available to the punter public

From memory the problem was one of tread separation and linked to a number of factors:

Poor design of the tyre
Manufacturing technique
Low inflation pressure

It had echos of the problems when radial tyres were introduced to the USA which lead to numerous accidents but that's a different story. The Bridgewater / Ford issue was nothing to do with tyre degradation caused by oxidation or ageing. Unless my memory is failing the use of Nitrogen was never mentioned.

Tyres (sidewalls) as I have stated are formulated to contain a wax that migrates to the surface over the life of a tyre this is all the protection they need unless you are in the habit of scraping the tyres against kerbs when parking or using solvents or boot polish that will remove the manufacturers designed protection.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It was for years that USA tyres were said to have more 'rubber' in the compound to that of EU / UK .. and that helped cause them to squeal at lower cornering speed than EU / UK tyres.

Maybe the difference has been reduced now - but the USA compound was fact.

I drove a lot in USA and it was an annoyance .. squeal .. squeal ... squeal ..

A Base Oil client of mine in Latvia was crazy for American cars and he had similar cars to what I drove in USA ... never heard his squeal on EU tyres ... which seemed to confirm what I had read ..

I would love to know where your facts come from ( regarding tyre formulation) Mine come from a number of years working for a major tyre manufacturer with several years in compound formulation. I can assure you that the tyres made by that manufacturer in the US which had the same designation as a tyre made in Ireland, Germany, France or any other country had exactly the same formulation, design and construction.

 

[Bouba]

I would love to know where your facts come from ( regarding tyre formulation) Mine come from a number of years working for a major tyre manufacturer with several years in compound formulation. I can assure you that the tyres made by that manufacturer in the US which had the same designation as a tyre made in Ireland, Germany, France or any other country had exactly the same formulation, design and construction.

The thread is called a Tyresome question......and that was a Tyresome answer....

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The thread is called a Tyresome question......and that was a Tyresome answer....

Maybe so but factual and truthful from experience not some half arsed "it was said" repeated twaddle that viago would be proud of.

 

[billskip]

but factual and truthful

Why should I believe that?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Why should I believe that?

Your choice, I couldn't give a rats arse

 

[Refueler]

I would love to know where your facts come from ( regarding tyre formulation) Mine come from a number of years working for a major tyre manufacturer with several years in compound formulation. I can assure you that the tyres made by that manufacturer in the US which had the same designation as a tyre made in Ireland, Germany, France or any other country had exactly the same formulation, design and construction.

Dear Sir,

I did not say that same tyre .. same designation ... please show me where I said that ....

My point was that the tyres used on cars I drove in USA - generally squealed more than any car I drove in EU / UK.

Interestingly AI first agrees with my comment - but then reverses it !!

"
AI Overview

US tires may seem to squeal more than EU tires because they are designed to prioritize different characteristics: North American tires often prioritize longevity and durability, while European tires are formulated to prioritize wet grip and performance. This difference is driven by contrasting market values and road conditions, with the European market often facing more frequent wet, winding roads and a greater emphasis on handling and stopping distances, notes this YouTube video.

• Design priorities:
  European tires are often engineered with softer rubber compounds and tread patterns designed to maximize grip in wet conditions, which can lead to more frequent squealing when subjected to hard cornering or aggressive driving. Conversely, US tires are frequently designed for longer tread life, which may involve harder compounds and less emphasis on extreme grip performance.
  
  
• Market focus:
  The European market places a high value on features like wet braking, handling, and fuel efficiency, which are measured by the EU tire label. The US market historically places a higher premium on treadwear and durability, often leading to a focus on longer-lasting tires that might not grip as aggressively as their European counterparts.
  
  
• Road and weather conditions:
  The common perception of US roads being straight and relatively dry while EU roads are more often wet and winding also influences tire design. Tires built for Europe must perform well in diverse weather and road conditions, including frequent rain and tighter turns, which can increase the likelihood of squealing during maneuvers.

As I said in first part of this reply ... I was not comparing same spec tyre with same spec tyre ... I live and work in an environment od Specification products .. so would never knowingly make such error.

I do think that part of the squeal - could be due to different design characteristics of the cars as well .. its taken many years for US design to 'creep' towards the more European style and set-up.

 

[Refueler]

Maybe so but factual and truthful from experience not some half arsed "it was said" repeated twaddle that viago would be proud of.

I resent the implied that I am 'half-arsed' and just repeating twaddle. I base it on my actual experience of driving in many locations and for reasonable periods in USA ... of varying cars as well.

I don't doubt your knowledge in the tyre design. But see mt previous post where I say - I did not compare same tyre with same tyre.

 

[Refueler]

From memory the problem was one of tread separation and linked to a number of factors:

Poor design of the tyre
Manufacturing technique
Low inflation pressure

It had echos of the problems when radial tyres were introduced to the USA which lead to numerous accidents but that's a different story. The Bridgewater / Ford issue was nothing to do with tyre degradation caused by oxidation or ageing. Unless my memory is failing the use of Nitrogen was never mentioned.

Tyres (sidewalls) as I have stated are formulated to contain a wax that migrates to the surface over the life of a tyre this is all the protection they need unless you are in the habit of scraping the tyres against kerbs when parking or using solvents or boot polish that will remove the manufacturers designed protection.

Typo ? Never heard of Bridgwater - except the little village !

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Typo ? Never heard of Bridgwater - except the little village !

Yes Bridgestone

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I resent the implied that I am 'half-arsed' and just repeating twaddle. I base it on my actual experience of driving in many locations and for reasonable periods in USA ... of varying cars as well.

I don't doubt your knowledge in the tyre design. But see mt previous post where I say - I did not compare same tyre with same tyre.

Your knowledge or half arsed comment about US tyres containing more rubber was what I was referring to. Resent away.

 

[Refueler]

Your knowledge or half arsed comment about US tyres containing more rubber was what I was referring to. Resent away.

If you go back - I did not make it as hard fact statement - as it was info passed in the article ... which made much of the different criteria placed regionally on tyres.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Dear Sir,

I did not say that same tyre .. same designation ... please show me where I said that ....

My point was that the tyres used on cars I drove in USA - generally squealed more than any car I drove in EU / UK.

Interestingly AI first agrees with my comment - but then reverses it !!

"
AI Overview

US tires may seem to squeal more than EU tires because they are designed to prioritize different characteristics: North American tires often prioritize longevity and durability, while European tires are formulated to prioritize wet grip and performance. This difference is driven by contrasting market values and road conditions, with the European market often facing more frequent wet, winding roads and a greater emphasis on handling and stopping distances, notes this YouTube video.

• Design priorities:
  European tires are often engineered with softer rubber compounds and tread patterns designed to maximize grip in wet conditions, which can lead to more frequent squealing when subjected to hard cornering or aggressive driving. Conversely, US tires are frequently designed for longer tread life, which may involve harder compounds and less emphasis on extreme grip performance.
  
  
• Market focus:
  The European market places a high value on features like wet braking, handling, and fuel efficiency, which are measured by the EU tire label. The US market historically places a higher premium on treadwear and durability, often leading to a focus on longer-lasting tires that might not grip as aggressively as their European counterparts.
  
  
• Road and weather conditions:
  The common perception of US roads being straight and relatively dry while EU roads are more often wet and winding also influences tire design. Tires built for Europe must perform well in diverse weather and road conditions, including frequent rain and tighter turns, which can increase the likelihood of squealing during maneuvers.

As I said in first part of this reply ... I was not comparing same spec tyre with same spec tyre ... I live and work in an environment od Specification products .. so would never knowingly make such error.

I do think that part of the squeal - could be due to different design characteristics of the cars as well .. its taken many years for US design to 'creep' towards the more European style and set-up.

Yes AI twaddle repeating what it can find in a myriad of uninformed internet comments. You might have noticed I said major and I will bet you anything you want that the formulation for a tyre by an international company of reputation such as Pirelli, Michelin and Bridgestone will use the same formulation; design and construction in Europe and the US. I also pointed out that squealing often comes from the relationship between car suspension and tyre with driver and road surface being additional factors with drivers often thinking they know better than manufacturers and over or under inflating their tyres or simply not bothering to check the pressure from one years end to another. I also pointed out the initial problems of introducing a radial tyre into the US Market which was a long time ago and the delay in car manufacturers in adapting to it which led to crossply tyres being common for much longer in the US than Europe and problems caused by mixing radial and crossply tyres.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If you go back - I did not make it as hard fact statement - as it was info passed in the article ... which made much of the different criteria placed regionally on tyres.

Yes quoting twaddle, often a problem.

Tyres are made all over the world and exported between countries there aren't regional differences in construction other than poor quality control design of some countries tyres which was certainly a problem of some far East and Eastern European tyres in the 70s and 80s.

 

[ducked]

From memory the problem was one of tread separation and linked to a number of factors:

Poor design of the tyre
Manufacturing technique
Low inflation pressure

It had echos of the problems when radial tyres were introduced to the USA which lead to numerous accidents but that's a different story. The Bridgewater / Ford issue was nothing to do with tyre degradation caused by oxidation or ageing. Unless my memory is failing the use of Nitrogen was never mentioned.

Tyres (sidewalls) as I have stated are formulated to contain a wax that migrates to the surface over the life of a tyre this is all the protection they need unless you are in the habit of scraping the tyres against kerbs when parking or using solvents or boot polish that will remove the manufacturers designed protection.

I think its Bridgestone, rather than Bridgewater

If "this is all the protection they need" then they wouldn't crack, but they do.

As I said, I would have very little confidence in the claims of protectant manufacturers which AFAIK are unsupported by published evidence, so I'm not sure what your point is, but if you feel the OEM wax working to the surface of the tyre protects to an extent then it doesn't seem logical to deduce from this that something else applied to the surface cannot.

I'm impressed by the confidence with which you state that the use of Nitrogen "was never mentioned". Without any qualification, this implies not mentioned by anyone, anywhere.

This doesnt require an infallible memory. It requires omniscience.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I think its Bridgestone, rather than Bridgewater

If "this is all the protection they need" then they wouldn't crack, but they do.

As I said, I would have very little confidence in the claims of protectant manufacturers which AFAIK are unsupported by published evidence, so I'm not sure what your point is, but if you feel the OEM wax working to the surface of the tyre protects to an extent then it doesn't seem logical to deduce from this that something else applied to the surface cannot.

I'm impressed by the confidence with which you state that the use of Nitrogen "was never mentioned". Without any qualification, this implies not mentioned by anyone, anywhere.

This doesnt require an infallible memory. It requires omniscience.

Underinflation leading to overheating and high flexing of sidewall and tread is a major cause of deterioration.

Applying a solvent or something that has no relationship to the compound of the tyre will often was off or cause the protection to fail. There is no need for it.

The mention of nitrogen came from you initially I responded.

 

[Refueler]

Yes quoting twaddle, often a problem.

Tyres are made all over the world and exported between countries there aren't regional differences in construction other than poor quality control design of some countries tyres which was certainly a problem of some far East and Eastern European tyres in the 70s and 80s.

I agree that the boundaries of tyre use have eroded over the years .... I swap between Chinese, Indian and Russian tyres on all my vehicles.

But I have yet to see any from USA here .. we have all the European brands as well ..

I note that you avoid addressing my reply about not comparing same spec design across regions ... that I was not specific in that ...

I am sure as it is with fuels - that there are local / regional specifications as well universal ... ??

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I agree that the boundaries of tyre use have eroded over the years .... I swap between Chinese, Indian and Russian tyres on all my vehicles.

But I have yet to see any from USA here .. we have all the European brands as well ..

I note that you avoid addressing my reply about not comparing same spec design across regions ... that I was not specific in that ...

I am sure as it is with fuels - that there are local / regional specifications as well universal ... ??

Let's be clear a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S or a Bridgestone Turanza or Pirelli Scorpion or any other designation manufactured in any plant in the world will be identical to one manufactured in another plant in an other country. As for US tyres being in use in Europe, probably not it depends on market volume and plant capacities but you can bet your cotton socks that they will be sold in other countries.
I did address your point about regions and it's down to climate but it will be specific and is related to Winter / all season / summer tyres. not countries. A winter tyre manufactured by one of the major manufacturers will have the same formulation, compounding and design whether it's used in Canada, the US or Europe.
I would stick to talking about fuels which you appear to have first hand knowledge about, I don't which is why I wouldn't contribute to a thread about fuels with twaddle I gleaned off the internet or some guy in the pub.
It's not the country of manufacture that causes the variation it's the manufacturer. I wish you well with your Russian tyres, fortunately I don't and in all likelihood have to drive in Latvia and would sooner drive on the rims than a Russian tyre.

 

[Refueler]

Let's be clear a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S or a Bridgestone Turanza or Pirelli Scorpion or any other designation manufactured in any plant in the world will be identical to one manufactured in another plant in an other country. As for US tyres being in use in Europe, probably not it depends on market volume and plant capacities but you can bet your cotton socks that they will be sold in other countries.
I did address your point about regions and it's down to climate but it will be specific and is related to Winter / all season / summer tyres. not countries. A winter tyre manufactured by one of the major manufacturers will have the same formulation, compounding and design whether it's used in Canada, the US or Europe.
I would stick to talking about fuels which you appear to have first hand knowledge about, I don't which is why I wouldn't contribute to a thread about fuels with twaddle I gleaned off the internet or some guy in the pub.
It's not the country of manufacture that causes the variation it's the manufacturer. I wish you well with your Russian tyres, fortunately I don't and in all likelihood have to drive in Latvia and would sooner drive on the rims than a Russian tyre.

Boy oh Boy ...

With all respect for your knowledge which I have not questioned in any form.

But you still sit on the misconception that I claimed Specification XXX will be different per region - which I DID NOT STATE. I never claimed that specification XXX tyre in USA was different from same specification XXX in Europe ..... my comment was a generalisation ...

I have not in any form tried to give impression I am a Tyre guhru ... far from it ... if you go back to original posts they were all as info I had .. and from driving cars ... my experience of driving cars in many countrys of the world ... the USA along with other countries in South America - I experienced squealing of tyres in situations that with my UK / EU cars never did.

Thank you for the fuels comment ... pity that some others don't think the same ... their problem not mine !!

 

[Bouba]

Let's be clear a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S or a Bridgestone Turanza or Pirelli Scorpion or any other designation manufactured in any plant in the world will be identical to one manufactured in another plant in an other country. As for US tyres being in use in Europe, probably not it depends on market volume and plant capacities but you can bet your cotton socks that they will be sold in other countries.
I did address your point about regions and it's down to climate but it will be specific and is related to Winter / all season / summer tyres. not countries. A winter tyre manufactured by one of the major manufacturers will have the same formulation, compounding and design whether it's used in Canada, the US or Europe.
I would stick to talking about fuels which you appear to have first hand knowledge about, I don't which is why I wouldn't contribute to a thread about fuels with twaddle I gleaned off the internet or some guy in the pub.
It's not the country of manufacture that causes the variation it's the manufacturer. I wish you well with your Russian tyres, fortunately I don't and in all likelihood have to drive in Latvia and would sooner drive on the rims than a Russian tyre.

So you are out resident expert in the chemical composition of tyres.....great.....and you wouldn’t comment on any other field outside your professional expertise...I see....mmm.....so....all sixty nine thousand seven hundred and sixty six posts are on tyre chemistry