TP10 - doesn't sail to windward?

[Willham]

So having just pressed the button on the purchase of a Simrad TP10 auto-tiller, I subsequently noticed that it is claimed in this article that the TP10 doesn't sail to windward, but that the TP22 and TP32 do. Is this simple a matter of the the mechanical strength of the device? On a small, light-tillered yacht like my Sadler 25, is this likely to be a genuine constraint?

 

[B27]

The TP10 only has a compass inside, it has no knowledge of the wind direction.
More advanced models will link to your wind instrument and steer close-hauled to the wind.

You can use a TP10 to windward, but it won't respond to windshifts.
We don't find this a problem, personally. Unless the wind is very shifty coming off the cliffs, we can normally set the autopilot and only need to tweak the course a few degrees every few minutes at most. But then I'm happy to helm quite a lot when I'm sailing, the pilot is mostly to enable me to leave the helm 'now and then'.

 

[lustyd]

It says wind, not windward, as B27 said above. I used to have a TP10 and it was fantastic. I then had a Raymarine ST5000+ and now a B&G Triton 2 & NAC3 both of which can sail to wind, and the B&G will sail to waypoints etc. happily too.

The thing is though, I never do those things. I press auto and then I press standby a bit later. I've never witnessed others using those functions either. I'm sure people do, but I'd wager the majority just use the auto button and hold a compass course, reducing functionality to that of the TP10.

If you're solo and sailing to wind, the thing might turn and sail you into the beach if you're not watching, whereas sail to compass will just steer straight. Worst case your sails flap and you have to go sort things out.

 

[Tranona]

It says wind, not windward, as B27 said above. I used to have a TP10 and it was fantastic. I then had a Raymarine ST5000+ and now a B&G Triton 2 & NAC3 both of which can sail to wind, and the B&G will sail to waypoints etc. happily too.

The thing is though, I never do those things. I press auto and then I press standby a bit later. I've never witnessed others using those functions either. I'm sure people do, but I'd wager the majority just use the auto button and hold a compass course, reducing functionality to that of the TP10.

If you're solo and sailing to wind, the thing might turn and sail you into the beach if you're not watching, whereas sail to compass will just steer straight. Worst case your sails flap and you have to go sort things out.

It is tempting to just press go to sail to a compass course - but suggest you try sailing to wind. It is a revelation. Course may not be as good depending on the wind but once sails are properly trimmed it is much more relaxing and the pilot has less work to do. You just have to watch XTE to check you will still make your waypoint within the limits you set.

 

[lustyd]

It is tempting to just press go to sail to a compass course - but suggest you try sailing to wind. It is a revelation. Course may not be as good depending on the wind but once sails are properly trimmed it is much more relaxing and the pilot has less work to do. You just have to watch XTE to check you will still make your waypoint within the limits you set.

I have tried it and the extra worry of the wind changing just isn’t worth it for shortish trips. Far easier to find out the wind has shifted but you’re on course than the other way around. I do understand what you’re saying and would consider that for long passages, but then I’d probably get a wind vane instead!

 

[Tranona]

I have tried it and the extra worry of the wind changing just isn’t worth it for shortish trips. Far easier to find out the wind has shifted but you’re on course than the other way around. I do understand what you’re saying and would consider that for long passages, but then I’d probably get a wind vane instead!

Fond memories of going the length of the western Solent from Cowes to Yarmouth with the cruising chute up in 10 knots of wind and 7 knots through the water without touching the wheel. Good to have things to play with when on your own.

 

[lustyd]

Have done the same…with a TP10

 

[Refueler]

Personally ... if wind is too near to destination direction and means TP will be teetering on edge ... I bear off a touch to have a more reliable time on that tack .... let TP do its job ... then tack later to get back the little bit of off track error ...

Life's about enjoying ...

 

[ithet]

I've never witnessed others using those functions either.

Yes I do, a lot. Have an EVO 200 system, I set steer to waypoint because that is where I usually want to go. Almost always set a waypoint even if not using AP as the display gives me the WP relative position and off track error. I use sail to wind especially with wind on stern quarter when it can keep a close course without gybing. But if I just want pilot to take over for a few mins, then I press auto.

For the OP, the TP10 has no NMEA interface, so there is no way of feeding it wind data.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

It's a simple misunderstanding. Any TP can steer to windward using heading hold. You just have to adjust manually to wind shifts. TP22 and 32 can steer to an apparent wind angle (wind mode) if connected to a source of such.

 

[roaringgirl]

I've never witnessed others using those functions either.

I used it for 3000 miles between the Galapagos and French Polynesia. It makes an accidental gybe less likely.

 

[lustyd]

I used it for 3000 miles between the Galapagos and French Polynesia. It makes an accidental gybe less likely.

And I wasn't there to witness it! I didn't say nobody uses it, quite the opposite. Most people, most of the time in most casual boating though, I think will just hit auto as it's easier. I'd bet you probably do too most of the time.

Seems a lot of folk on this thread determined to tell OP they made a mistake buying their perfectly adequate tiller pilot.

 

[Refueler]

It's a simple misunderstanding. Any TP can steer to windward using heading hold. You just have to adjust manually to wind shifts. TP22 and 32 can steer to an apparent wind angle (wind mode) if connected to a source of such.

Yes ... but the point is that OP misread ... he thought Windward ... but in fact should have understood to wind ... so its not about holding to windward a course ... he missed that the manual was saying no wind vane data to the TP ....

 

[Willham]

Just catching up on this thread - I’d obviously misunderstood the meaning of the article. I was aware that the TP10 doesn’t integrate with other devices, but tbh, I don’t envisage me needing that functionality, and I don’t have a wind instrument that i could connect to it anyhow. It’s really for just allowing me to go make a cuppa, answer a call of nature etc. I think I bought the right thing for my purposes. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding all!

 

[Refueler]

Just catching up on this thread - I’d obviously misunderstood the meaning of the article. I was aware that the TP10 doesn’t integrate with other devices, but tbh, I don’t envisage me needing that functionality, and I don’t have a wind instrument that i could connect to it anyhow. It’s really for just allowing me to go make a cuppa, answer a call of nature etc. I think I bought the right thing for my purposes. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding all!

You are following in the footsteps of so many others .... yes its nice to have data connectivity to the Tillerpilot ... but really IMHO - its icing on a cake ... the main factor being that you have a TP - to allow more freedom of your movement.

I have 25ft and 38ft boats - with no data connectivity to the TP's ... do I miss it ? No. Would I like it ? Yes but I will not lose sleep if I don't have.

 

[Tranona]

Seems a lot of folk on this thread determined to tell OP they made a mistake buying their perfectly adequate tiller pilot.

Don't know how you come to that conclusion. For a start there are not a lot of folk responding and none said it was a mistake. Only 4 saying if you have the ability to sail to wind under autopilot it has its uses - all the same comment, particularly off the wind. All of these are actually in response to your post dismissing the facility out of hand with absolutely no evidence to support your sweeping statement. The OPs question was answered succinctly by B27 in post#2. There really was no need to add anything to that.

Most boats (certainly the Sadler) will sail to windward very well and need little help from the tiller pilot which is why many of us got years of good service out of basic TP10s and Autohelm 800 and 1000 - some of us even had Mini Seacourses. As we progress and get bigger, more powerful boats we appreciate some of the extra features modern autopilots offer, particularly the ability to sail to apparent wind and when the wind is abaft the beam.