Total newbie - Go easy on me!

[vodzurk]

Hi All,

First post, and seeking info which I imagine is painful for all you guys/gals to hear being requested, so apologies up front!

So, background on me+she... both in our 30s, and pretty mad about boats. However, we've had limited experience... so far:

• Half a day on Lake Geneva (~30mph, practically a toy, but got us hooked)
• 2 day Powerboat Lvl2 course, now ICC'd. (~50knots rib)... mostly in Bristol Harbour, but including half a day Bristol Channel.
• Day zipping around Malta coastline. (115hp... was interesting learning how to deal with swell).

Upcoming in 2 weeks we're gonna do a 3 day (rib or similar) rental in Dubrovnik (our honeymoon), then hope to get down to Salcombe or near Wighty to rent a rib for a day or two along the Jurassic Coast before winter sets in.

So not a lot of experience at the moment. However, we're utterly loving every single minute of it, and thinking about getting our own boatyness. I think our garage has 6-6.5m at its peak, so that'd have to include a trailer. Without garaging it, the mooring/storage fees would eat into saving for the longer term dream of something bigger.

We're also very close to Bristol Harbour (Bedminster for anyone interested).

Our plan is to possibly, over winter, buy a 5m vessel (something like a Fletcher17 or Bow Rider). Then spend winter getting to know her in the harbour/inland (docking, using a slip, head up river to Bath, etc). Then hopefully in a year or two make it across to Cardiff?!??

The end goal is to save up for something much larger, retire early, and spend a lot of time aboard... but that's a decade away, and a lot of dreaming.

On to my newbie questions:

• Does any of the above stick out as odd? Wrong plan? Not the way to do it?
• Is a 5-5.5m boat too small to get across the Bristol Channel without tons more experience?
• >>> How would you suggest getting that experience?
• Is my PB2/ICC licence enough to get the "day insurance" and plop it into the Bristol Harbour?
• I only have coastal endorsement, so am I banned from cruising up to Bath?
• My car (a clapped out Astra) is rated for 1300kg... if I have 1000kg (boat/trailer/engine)... is it all gonna go to tits with my front-wheel drive when I reverse onto a slip?
• If a boat is rated at say 5m, how much extra would I have to add on for the trailer and engine when stored?
• Does anybody have any advice on how to progress with learning? It seems that at some point you've gotta take the plunge.
• Odd question... are there places to dump a boat/trailer for the night? (I spent 2014 converting one side of the garage into a bar, which has 2 parties a year *facepalm*)

I'm new to this forum, but will no doubt be scouring every thread over the next few weeks (hopefully from aboard a rental in Dubrovnik!).

Thanks in advance, and apologies if the questions/post is painful to your eyes/experience .

 

[Sneds]

Hi. Lots of questions and all very valid.
Firstly, no reason why you couldn't cruise up to Bath from Bristol, no "driving licence" required in the UK, but I would suggest you are looking at the wrong boat.
For inland use at slow speed a small day cruiser like a Shetland 535 or a larger Birchwwod 25 would be a lot more suitable and comfortable, giving you a fridge, a loo, a kettle and somewhere to sleep. Bristol to Bath will take around eight hours.
If you want to go to sea maybe look to buy a Sealine 215, we had one in Bristol for a few years and went to Cardiff regularly.
Get used to the boat in the harbour and then go out to sea in company with another boat.
Ignore the doom and gloom merchants in who keep boats in the City Docks and tell you how dangerous the Channel is, it can be but most of those have never been there!
Bristol Marina would be the best people to ask about storing the trailer but they may be able to accommodate you on a pontoon mooring? The docks themselves run by the city council have a waiting list but I would go along to the office of the harbour master at Underfall yard and get your name on that list.
All assuming of course that you haven't bought the speedboat yet?
Feel free to ask more, and never worry about asking, good luck!

 

[Allan]

Welcome to the forum. I think your ideas all seem fine.
As a young person I had a couple of speedboats that we used in the winter. I soon got bored and moved on to other things. Have you tried sailing? You may find you prefer it.
The Bristol channel is as dangerous as anything you will hear and as benign as Sneds imply's. Learning a little about the weather may be a good idea. In particular, the effects of wind and tide. That way you should only be there when it's good.
One practical thing to help. The trailer of my second speedboat was too long for the space my Dad allowed me to store it (I was 18!) So I towed it to work, cut the frame and made a bolt together join. Nearly 3 feet shorter, everybody happy!
I've just thought, that was 1974!
Allan

 

[Gelfie]

May I suggest a coastal skipper evening class at your local tech. Most run these over the winter and it will give you a good grounding in the techinical rather than practical side.

 

[jwilson]

On ANY seagoing speedboat type you should have a second engine unless you always go in company/convoy. The Bristol Channel has extra dangers over many other coastal areas, very strong tides, lots of sandbanks, and can get very rough very fast in wind-aganst-tide conditions. If you don't understand these dangers you really shouldn't be there on your own. All can be safe enough as long as you are careful about weather and think "what if...." - and have a plan for various eventualities, in a motor boat mainly engine breakdown or running out of fuel.

 

[vodzurk]

Hi. Lots of questions and all very valid.
Firstly, no reason why you couldn't cruise up to Bath from Bristol, no "driving licence" required in the UK, but I would suggest you are looking at the wrong boat.
For inland use at slow speed a small day cruiser like a Shetland 535 or a larger Birchwwod 25 would be a lot more suitable and comfortable, giving you a fridge, a loo, a kettle and somewhere to sleep. Bristol to Bath will take around eight hours.
If you want to go to sea maybe look to buy a Sealine 215, we had one in Bristol for a few years and went to Cardiff regularly.
Get used to the boat in the harbour and then go out to sea in company with another boat.
Ignore the doom and gloom merchants in who keep boats in the City Docks and tell you how dangerous the Channel is, it can be but most of those have never been there!
Bristol Marina would be the best people to ask about storing the trailer but they may be able to accommodate you on a pontoon mooring? The docks themselves run by the city council have a waiting list but I would go along to the office of the harbour master at Underfall yard and get your name on that list.
All assuming of course that you haven't bought the speedboat yet?
Feel free to ask more, and never worry about asking, good luck!

Hi Sneds, thanks for the advice!

Good to know that there aren't any legal requirements or whatnot required to go Bristol->Bath . I do understand that it's probably the wrong type of boat, but the intention would be "something local to do with the boat on a nice day", maybe park it up a few times for some practice, as well as get used to using a slip . We're not too fussed for Boat #1 about toilet/fridge/kettle/sleeping... we're thinking something cheap to learn in, then hopefully we'll still be rabid after a few years and progress to something more suited to whatever our needs will be then.

The Sealine 215 does look pretty sweet... unfortunately it won't fit in the garage, which is a key part to The Plan™. If we have something that needs paid storage or a berth, then it would impact my ability to save for The Ultimate Boat™. If this all turns out to be a bad idea too (hopefully not), then it'll be less painful if that "bl**dy boat" is in the garage, instead of costing money.

Good call regarding using the Channel with another boat, that'd greatly put my mind at ease when the day comes. With a single engine I'm guessing this would always be the way to go. I imagine once I'm messing around in the Harbour, the leads/people to get chummy with will become apparent .

 

[vodzurk]

Welcome to the forum. I think your ideas all seem fine.
As a young person I had a couple of speedboats that we used in the winter. I soon got bored and moved on to other things. Have you tried sailing? You may find you prefer it.
The Bristol channel is as dangerous as anything you will hear and as benign as Sneds imply's. Learning a little about the weather may be a good idea. In particular, the effects of wind and tide. That way you should only be there when it's good.
One practical thing to help. The trailer of my second speedboat was too long for the space my Dad allowed me to store it (I was 18!) So I towed it to work, cut the frame and made a bolt together join. Nearly 3 feet shorter, everybody happy!
I've just thought, that was 1974!
Allan

Hi Allan,

I do like the idea of sailing to some extent. Especially the cost factor. The thought of eventually having a twin engine coastal cruiser costing £100 per hour in fuel does have the potential of being a dream-killer. Unfortunately my wife-to-be has a dislike of sailing... apparently it's too complex (yeah, I know!). Maybe in a few years though.

Didn't realise trailers could be trimmed down though, thanks for the tip! I'm expecting garage space to be incredibly tight, so might have to do something like that!

 

[vodzurk]

May I suggest a coastal skipper evening class at your local tech. Most run these over the winter and it will give you a good grounding in the techinical rather than practical side.

Hi Gelfie,

Yep! I think I'll be enrolling on this as soon as I have some free time (Work/Marriage this weekend/part-time study, is all killing me for time at the moment).

I see Bristol Maritime Academy has this... also lots of other stuff recently seems to have appeared on their new site (or maybe I missed it earlier), such as RYA Intermediate Powerboat and RYA Advanced Powerboat... so looks like there's a path of stuff to do .

I might make an effort to switch between providers, so not to get too used to Bristol Channel/Harbour... possibly Portishead next, to try out a different set of locks/start-point .

Also found a chart which shows the logical path through it, yay!

 

[vodzurk]

On ANY seagoing speedboat type you should have a second engine unless you always go in company/convoy. The Bristol Channel has extra dangers over many other coastal areas, very strong tides, lots of sandbanks, and can get very rough very fast in wind-aganst-tide conditions. If you don't understand these dangers you really shouldn't be there on your own. All can be safe enough as long as you are careful about weather and think "what if...." - and have a plan for various eventualities, in a motor boat mainly engine breakdown or running out of fuel.

Hi Jwilson,

Yep, I totally understand that there are many dangers I don't yet know. I utterly know that presently, to make a solo crossing would be insanity, so no worries there . My post was to sanity check that I'm not putting any blockers on the end game (coastal powerboating), and that there's nothing obviously crazy about the long term (well, 1-2 year) plan to achieve this.

My first steps I think are (getting fuzzier towards the end, but the journey will probably make it clearer)...

1. Get boat.
2. Faff in Harbour.
3. Learn a bit about engine/boat maintenance.
3. Push out to Bath.
4. Make contacts.
5. Get out in Channel with company.
6. Join convoy to Cardiff?

 

[Sneds]

Steps 1-6
Seem spot on to me!

 

[Allan]

Steps 1-6
Seem spot on to me!

I totally agree. Maybe I would add, join a club or at least try to befriend other boaters. That way you may find someone to accompany you when you're ready. You may also get the chance to try other boats before you move up.
Allan
PS. I'm not sure if I prefer item 3 or item 3?

 

[tatali0n]

Can't help but echo Allan's advice regarding joining a club. Masses of support, a wealth of local (and not so local) experience and common interest. Each to their own, but the various clubs I've been a part of the last decade have proven to be one of the cornerstones to my sailing and development as a sailor.

As for sailing being complicated, I can understand your wife's point, but would suggest it can be as simple or as complicated as you like. Purists aside, pretty much any cruising sail boat has an engine I was talking with a friend that keeps a big powerboat down on the Solent, and the topic of fuel came up. A non-boating friend party to the conversation asked how much fuel he'd use nipping over to Cowes for lunch, to which the reply was of the order of £80.

That's more fuel than we've put in Calstar in the nigh on two years we've owned her

Of course, the other possibility is learn to sail yourself, and don't trouble your wife with the "complicated" bits. My wife has spent the last ten years staying as far away from my boats as she could. She quickly realised my fascination for bits of string and occasionally tipping them over and decided quite quickly she wanted no part of that.

Finally tempted her out for a couple of weeks this summer, now we've got a boat big enough she can sit comfortably in without fear of being tipped over, and after a slightly shaky start (note to self, a 10 hour beat into a stiff wind and energetic sea is not the ideal introduction to cruising for sailor's spouse), it's proven to be a great success, although she's made it quite clear she's to be considered supernumerary, along as a passenger only, and any running or jumping around or pulling silly bits of string are entirely down to me and me only. She's there to sit in the sun, read her book and ooh and ah over the occasional dolphin, it seems.

Which is fine. She's aboard, she came out with me again and loved the sailing of the weekend just gone, and the rest will come in time, little does she know

All the above aside, it's probably worth mentioning that you've got miles and miles of beautiful countryside and river and canal on your doorstep around here. You could spend a lifetime exploring it and the pubs along the way, never even step out of the Bristol Harbour lock, and be none the poorer for the bits out in the Bristol Channel you'll miss.

Welcome to the obsession that is being afloat!

 

[vodzurk]

Steps 1-6
Seem spot on to me!

Great stuff... good to know I'm not totally bonkers... not yet anyhows .

I totally agree. Maybe I would add, join a club or at least try to befriend other boaters. That way you may find someone to accompany you when you're ready. You may also get the chance to try other boats before you move up.
Allan
PS. I'm not sure if I prefer item 3 or item 3?

Is there much in the way of motor/powerboat clubs? Or are people chummy regardless of sail/engine? Most clubs seem to be "Sailing" clubs, so I've just assumed they'd tell me to sod off .

Ah, yep, #3 and #3 are often confusing . I've gone ahead and added the future steps too...

1. Get boat.
2. Faff in Harbour.
3. Learn a bit about engine/boat maintenance.
4. Push out to Bath.
5. Make contacts.
6. Get out in Channel with company.
7. Join convoy to Cardiff?
8. ???
9. Buy Mega-Monster-Yacht!

#8 is a bit sketchy, I mean, how hard can it be to save a few £million .

Can't help but echo Allan's advice regarding joining a club. Masses of support, a wealth of local (and not so local) experience and common interest. Each to their own, but the various clubs I've been a part of the last decade have proven to be one of the cornerstones to my sailing and development as a sailor.

As for sailing being complicated, I can understand your wife's point, but would suggest it can be as simple or as complicated as you like. Purists aside, pretty much any cruising sail boat has an engine I was talking with a friend that keeps a big powerboat down on the Solent, and the topic of fuel came up. A non-boating friend party to the conversation asked how much fuel he'd use nipping over to Cowes for lunch, to which the reply was of the order of £80.

That's more fuel than we've put in Calstar in the nigh on two years we've owned her

Of course, the other possibility is learn to sail yourself, and don't trouble your wife with the "complicated" bits. My wife has spent the last ten years staying as far away from my boats as she could. She quickly realised my fascination for bits of string and occasionally tipping them over and decided quite quickly she wanted no part of that.

Finally tempted her out for a couple of weeks this summer, now we've got a boat big enough she can sit comfortably in without fear of being tipped over, and after a slightly shaky start (note to self, a 10 hour beat into a stiff wind and energetic sea is not the ideal introduction to cruising for sailor's spouse), it's proven to be a great success, although she's made it quite clear she's to be considered supernumerary, along as a passenger only, and any running or jumping around or pulling silly bits of string are entirely down to me and me only. She's there to sit in the sun, read her book and ooh and ah over the occasional dolphin, it seems.

Which is fine. She's aboard, she came out with me again and loved the sailing of the weekend just gone, and the rest will come in time, little does she know

All the above aside, it's probably worth mentioning that you've got miles and miles of beautiful countryside and river and canal on your doorstep around here. You could spend a lifetime exploring it and the pubs along the way, never even step out of the Bristol Harbour lock, and be none the poorer for the bits out in the Bristol Channel you'll miss.

Welcome to the obsession that is being afloat!

I think you're right... a club seems the logical way to go about this. I'll refine my list to...

0. Car towbar.
1. Get boat.
2. Faff in Harbour.
3. Join a club.
4. Learn a bit about engine/boat maintenance.
5. Push out to Bath.
6. Make contacts.
7. Get out in Channel with company.
8. Join convoy to Cardiff?
9. Win Lottery.
10. Buy Mega-Monster-Yacht!

I think the issue with the fiance is she's all about getting on with things, she doesn't want to learn and enjoy the learning path. She also doesn't drive, boats are the only thing she's "licenced" for so she loves the motor/speed side of it. We can see how it goes... it'll be a starter to get us in the water . I guess it's difficult to know much until we're actually involved .

May I ask your personal work/play situation? I had a glance at your blog (pretty sure I've seen Calstar either at harbour fest or at Portishead a few weeks back... it seems familiar), and commiting so much time to sailing... are you semi-retired? Most of the time me+she are knackered from work so starting with a powerboat seems the easiest (and not too expensive for fuel initially).

I think the river/canal will be key to our learning... it's pretty much on our doorstep (well, 5 min drive). Will be a good sociable thing too, can have a couple of friends along for the ride to stop it getting too samey.

Now, just gotta get this marriage/honeymoon thing sorted in 4 days, then can get onto the important matter of boatyness!

 

[tatali0n]

May I ask your personal work/play situation? I had a glance at your blog (pretty sure I've seen Calstar either at harbour fest or at Portishead a few weeks back... it seems familiar), and committing so much time to sailing... are you semi-retired?

Haha Far from it, unfortunately. Very much full time employed, five days a week with the day job, and play in a band, usually at weekends, but we've cut back to only about 20 - 30 gigs a year these days which leaves a little bit of time to go sailing.

I also have a very patient, understanding wife who also happens to work shifts so doesn't tend to notice if I'm missing at weekends now that the kids have pretty much all grown up, and she's long since learned to love me despite my faults (one of which, I guess, is that I get a little obsessed with my interests)

Good luck with the whole getting married / honeymoon thing! If you happen to be back by the last weekend of September, my local sailing club is holding a "taster day" 24th September (http://www.fossc.org.uk/images/Taster_Day_2016.pdf).

Far from cruisers on the Bristol Channel, it's sailing dinghies on a lake in Frampton-on-Severn, but the club is a very friendly place, only a short skip up the M5 from Bristol, the day is free, no bookings required.

If the sun shines and we get a bit of wind, it'll be lovely.

 

[Allan]

Vodzurk,
To, partially, answer one of your questions. Lots of yacht and sailing clubs have members with motorboats. Although I live in Bristol, I'm a member of Cardiff yacht club, we have lots of motorboats. I'm not sure of the situation at Portishead cruising club. I'm pretty sure Cabot cruising club has motorboats. There is also another club in Bristol, I think they're called Bristol motorboat club. Their clubhouse is the barge, Sabina near Redcliffe bridge.
You may find some details on the BCYA website, see my signature.
Allan

 

[Lioness]

Vodzurk,
+1 to join a club.
Though, there are many different kinds of club out there. Some are as much if not more about the social side of life rather than the sailing which if you are wanting to use your limited leisure time to learn boating on the water can be a bit of a bore. Then there are membership clubs you can join which give you access ( for a monthly fee) to various types of boats which would give you and your partner the chance to find out what kind of boat and sailing you both enjoy and can afford. Then there are shared ownership "clubs" which for the price of a Fletcher and trailer could offer you a fast rib on the Solent for 6 weeks a year or a canal boat that is big enough for you and some friends to holiday on each year. Or both as your wealth increases!
I guess the point I am trying to make is to take your time to look at and try a few different boat clubs and ownership options before doing what a lot of us boaters do which is to just go out and buy a boat.

 

[Sneds]

It's Bristol cruising club at Sabina, friendly bunch and cheap beer!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Vodzurk,
+1 to join a club.

I guess the point I am trying to make is to take your time to look at and try a few different boat clubs and ownership options before doing what a lot of us boaters do which is to just go out and buy a boat.

Best bits of advice yet!

The problems with going out and buying a boat now are twofold. Firstly you dont really know what you are looking at when you see one. Secondly boats are way easier to buy than to sell and as someone who can easily be taken advantage of because of lack of knowledge .......... !

Powerboats in particular can be very appealing when you first come to boating. After all, you can drive a car so whats to worry about driving a boat. Lots as it happens but thats the way people think. But in the fullness of time when you know what you are doing they become more boring. Whereas sailing is all about developing a skill and the enjoyment of the journey, motorboats tend to be about the destination and speed for speeds sake. I guess thats why a far higher proportion of sailors go in for the training courses than mobo drivers. And anything from a half to two mpg doesnt help.

 

[PCUK]

Have to totally disagree with the Bosun. Nothing boring about motorboats, especially on long trips. With our last boat we would aim at 100 miles per day over a ten hour period. With our new boat which isn't ready yet we'll be able to travel vastly greater distances in a fairly short time although more dependent on conditions with a fast boat. You don't have to be wet and cold to prove you are a sailor (or seaman if you prefer). I can sail by the way but much prefer power. Each to his own!

 

[tatali0n]

I think sailing is more about the journey, power-boating the destination.

A gross over-simplification, I know, and more a reflection of my own mindset than anybody else's choice of float. I also know that the main thing is to be at sea, no matter the means.

A friend of mine once proudly showed me a photo of his brand new, shiny powerboat. A big, glossy grp thing with a flyaway bridge, etc. I cheekily asked him where on earth he was supposed to haul the sails up, his testy reply:

"The only canvas on my boat is the canvas we use to strap the champagne bottles down whilst we're doing doughnuts around the rag and stick brigade!"

I do know for me that nothing quite matches the magic of that moment when the sails first fill, the boat heels pliant to the wind and you finally still the rumble of the engine and begin to sail. At that point the boat seems to come alive, and Dad will then typically glance at the GPS, watch the ETA stretch out as the ground-speed falls away, and mutter discontentedly that we're never going to make it in now before the pub shuts, and start to expound on the merits and virtues of motor-sailing.

Dad is, at heart, a power-boater