To Ketch or not to Ketch

When I sail a ketch the mizzen was hoisted by a manual winch but the main was hydraulic so slow to hoist and drop. It also meant a reduced sized main which I guess was why many older boats favoured before the days of hydraulic rotating booms or electric winches. Nowdays many have in mast over 40foot but even if you don’t and pref stack pack an electric winch takes away much hassle and tend to be in cockpit as opposed to bouncing around at the mast cranking the main up.
 
Chiara’s slave said:
My favourite ketch sail. My first act when invited to sail a 2 master is to find the mizzen staysail and get it ready.
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Our mizzen staysail is the same size as the mainsail. We don't fly it with the mizzen. Instead, it sheets to the end of the mizzen boom. It's like having an aft spinnaker. Broad reaching with genoa, main and mizzen stsysail is a pure pleasure. So easy to put the mizzen staysail up and 1500sqft of sail all up with the white sails. Hoist the mizzen staysail with main n spinnaker and we have 2500sqft of sail on a 44ft yacht. No shortage of light wind power
 
We found ourselves offshore in some difficult conditions recently - for 36 hours the wind was sustained 40, gusting to a touch over 50 and the sea was around 6m. The hull speed of our boat is 8kts, but I saw us surf at 15. In these conditions I was concerned that we might get turned beam on to the sea in a trough leaving us open to capsize by the next wave. In those conditions, when surfing, the rudder frequently gets overtaken by the sea so doesn't have enough steerage to keep a safe angle to the waves.

We sailed at 130° off the wind (and sea) under a very small foresail and a reefed mizzen. This combination was perfectly balanced, so even though the rudder was frequently unable to steer, we were held at the safest angle by the sails. I ❤❤❤ my ketch!
 
Racing has always been a forcefull reason why boats get designed the way they do at one point yawls we’re good because of some rating deal,hence people are persuaded bermudian sloops are wonderful and obviously they are cheaper than a ketch .One downer on mizzenmast sails is the interference with a vanegear.
 
Wansworth said:
Racing has always been a forcefull reason why boats get designed the way they do at one point yawls we’re good because of some rating deal,hence people are persuaded bermudian sloops are wonderful and obviously they are cheaper than a ketch .One downer on mizzenmast sails is the interference with a vanegear.
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No problem for us, so long as we remember to drop the Hydrovane sail before tacking/gybing!
 
Wansworth said:
Racing has always been a forcefull reason why boats get designed the way they do at one point yawls we’re good because of some rating deal,hence people are persuaded bermudian sloops are wonderful and obviously they are cheaper than a ketch .One downer on mizzenmast sails is the interference with a vanegear.
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Our windpilot vane gear is below the mizzen boom. No interference
 
roaringgirl said:
We found ourselves offshore in some difficult conditions recently - for 36 hours the wind was sustained 40, gusting to a touch over 50 and the sea was around 6m. The hull speed of our boat is 8kts, but I saw us surf at 15. In these conditions I was concerned that we might get turned beam on to the sea in a trough leaving us open to capsize by the next wave. In those conditions, when surfing, the rudder frequently gets overtaken by the sea so doesn't have enough steerage to keep a safe angle to the waves.

We sailed at 130° off the wind (and sea) under a very small foresail and a reefed mizzen. This combination was perfectly balanced, so even though the rudder was frequently unable to steer, we were held at the safest angle by the sails. I ❤❤❤ my ketch!
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When the weather turns nasty I love not having the mainsail up. Heading off the wind when conditions get narly it takes a lot of stress out of the situation when the mainsail is stowed and you are just dealing with small easy to manage sails. We also love our ketch in those conditions particularly. We have our stsysail on a furler and a fully battened mizzen. It's a great set up for us
 
Flexible sail plan. A well balanced ketch will track nicely with little input needed on the wheel (which also means less battery drain on autohelm). Smaller main mast/main sail.

If you like sails (I suspect we do) then having more sails and more masts "feels" great when sailing on those perfect days.

Now considering another purchase and am tending towards a sloop, but I tend to sail solo. However this thread is giving me pause for thought.
 
how does Gybing work for ketches (especially shorthanded) - do you just pull in / let out the main and let the mizen move across ?

or bring both sails in one at a time/let out one at a time ? (guessing this is how, now I think about it)
 
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Marceline said:
how does Gybing work for ketches (especially shorthanded) - do you just pull in / let out the main and let the mizen move across ?
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If you've got enough crew, you can assign one to the mizzen. If you're shorthanded, you just sheet it in before gybing and back out afterwards and focus on the headsail(s) and main during the gybe.

I did quite enjoy ketch sailing. It'll keep you a little more busy, but it also gives you more options and a riding sail for when you're at anchor! And more to pack away after sailing or when winterizing! :)

The main downside was the upkeep. Replacing standing rigging on a ketch vs. a sloop is almost double the cost, and you also have an extra sail (or two if it's also cutter rigged) to keep in stitches, running rigging, tracks and blocks and all that stuff to take care of.

Also, below 45 foot or so ketches are often quite silly designs, with a mast in front of the helmsperson's nose! But on a 55 ft Oyster, I'd prefer the ketch rig over the sloop :)
 
Yngmar said:
If you've got enough crew, you can assign one to the mizzen. If you're shorthanded, you just sheet it in before gybing and back out afterwards and focus on the headsail(s) and main during the gybe.

I did quite enjoy ketch sailing. It'll keep you a little more busy, but it also gives you more options and a riding sail for when you're at anchor! And more to pack away after sailing or when winterizing! :)

The main downside was the upkeep. Replacing standing rigging on a ketch vs. a sloop is almost double the cost, and you also have an extra sail (or two if it's also cutter rigged) to keep in stitches, running rigging, tracks and blocks and all that stuff to take care of.

Also, below 45 foot or so ketches are often quite silly designs, with a mast in front of the helmsperson's nose! But on a 55 ft Oyster, I'd prefer the ketch rig over the sloop :)
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Our 44ft ketch has the mizzen mast on the aft deck. It's a Van de Stadt design. They are used to making boat sail very well.
The main mast rig is 12mm diameter. The mizzen mast rig is 6mm diameter and the mast is short. There is no way the cost of rerigging a ketch is twice that of a sloop. 6mm wire and fittings are a fraction of the cost of 12mm. Our mainsail is 400sqft. The mizzen is 150sqft. Again. No way the cost of replacement sails is the same
 
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