The NEW tender and outboard MUD DISASTER... Got to love outboards !

[Corribee72]

Glad you made it out I am on a swing mooring in Portsmouth harbour so know what you mean about mud! Many, many years ago when my son was 7 years old I took him bait digging and said those infamous words, don't go over there, so of course he goes over there and gets stuck. I pulled him out minus one wellie, one of thousands stuck in the mud no doubt!

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

When a new engine cuts out after it get warm, indicates electronic ignition problem; I bet it starts ok when cold.

 

[Boo2]

...I highly doubt it has anything to do with the fuel.

I assume this relates to a dispute you have with the outboard vendor ? why not take a sample of the fuel and have it analysed ?

Boo2

 

[Corribee72]

If there was a dodgy batch of fuel you would know about it by now, when this happens the fall out is nuclear and the press really run with it.

 

[prv]

When a new engine cuts out after it get warm, indicates electronic ignition problem; I bet it starts ok when cold.

I'm no expert on outboards but I was thinking the same thing. Replacing the ignition system (it's a single part on small Suzukis) cured similar behaviour on my 2.2hp 2-stroke.

Either way, no need for Greg to diagnose it himself - it's a brand new engine, making it run reliably is the dealer's job.

Pete

 

[GregOddity]

I assume this relates to a dispute you have with the outboard vendor ? why not take a sample of the fuel and have it analysed ?

Boo2

At the moment I'm not in a dispute, yet. I'm just listening to what they are saying. I do find weird that I was "warned" about bad fuel problems when i was buying the outboard. I do know other people saying the same, so whats up with that???? is that a porblem with Mariner engines? is that a common thing? is it really the fuel? the press with have a field day if it was the fuel.

 

[William_H]

Generally a dry spark plug on an engine that won't start indicates a fuel problem. ie no fuel. If the plug is very wet with fuel then it is an ignition problem. it seems to me that if reliability of engine is so critical then the only alternative is 2 engines. (or a dinghy style that can be easily rowed.)
Stories like this make me really appreciate how luck we are here in antipodes. No mud very small tides etc (oh and warm weather) olewill

 

[Stemar]

Some years ago, the skipper clipped a mooring line with the outboard prop, breaking the shear pin, as we were returning from putting his boat to bed. There was an easterly F7 blowing and we were on the East side of Portsmouth Harbour on a rapidly falling tide. I tried to row us home, but the wind and tide meant we ended up on the mud.

A phone call to the club apprised them of the situation and and we settled down to wait for some water. Someone at the club, quite correctly, informed QHM or Solent Coastguard, who sent GAFIRS (the local inshore lifeboat). The lad who came out to us was obviously of an athletic bent, and strong, with a kayak to help keep him from getting stuck but was obviously knackered after going 100 yards through the mud, so a good thing a couple of old farts didn't try! They tried to pull us off the mud, which didn't work, but there was a rescue helicopter in the air, en route from somewhere east to somewhere west, so GAFIRS asked if we'd mind being helicopterwd the to the shore, which duly happened. The chopper dropped us in a nearby car park and the GAFIRS land rover dropped us back at the club. Our dinghy arrived courtesy of their RIB a couple of minutes later. Full marks to GAFIRS.

All this in full view of the club bar on a Sunday afternoon...

In fact, thinking we could wait it out wasn't smart. It was October, and we were dressed to be comfortable for 20 minutes out to the mooring and back, not for several hours sitting still in an open dinghy. By the time we got ashore we were both properly cold.

 

[GregOddity]

Some years ago, the skipper clipped a mooring line with the outboard prop, breaking the shear pin, as we were returning from putting his boat to bed. There was an easterly F7 blowing and we were on the East side of Portsmouth Harbour on a rapidly falling tide. I tried to row us home, but the wind and tide meant we ended up on the mud.

A phone call to the club apprised them of the situation and and we settled down to wait for some water. Someone at the club, quite correctly, informed QHM or Solent Coastguard, who sent GAFIRS (the local inshore lifeboat). The lad who came out to us was obviously of an athletic bent, and strong, with a kayak to help keep him from getting stuck but was obviously knackered after going 100 yards through the mud, so a good thing a couple of old farts didn't try! They tried to pull us off the mud, which didn't work, but there was a rescue helicopter in the air, en route from somewhere east to somewhere west, so GAFIRS asked if we'd mind being helicopterwd the to the shore, which duly happened. The chopper dropped us in a nearby car park and the GAFIRS land rover dropped us back at the club. Our dinghy arrived courtesy of their RIB a couple of minutes later. Full marks to GAFIRS.

All this in full view of the club bar on a Sunday afternoon...

In fact, thinking we could wait it out wasn't smart. It was October, and we were dressed to be comfortable for 20 minutes out to the mooring and back, not for several hours sitting still in an open dinghy. By the time we got ashore we were both properly cold.

I was reading that and thinking that I can really relate to that. The only reason that prevented me from calling it in, is because I rescued quite a few people from the mud, and sadly recovered some as well. I know how hard it is to get to people trapped and how hard it is to get them out as well. Having said that being on a small open dinghy wet and with a temp of 6 Celsius with some wind on top is not something you can do for a prolonged period like waiting for the next tide.
It was easier to get out on our own, Phil is still 147 kg, there’s no chance of getting out of the mud without the proper means, but that implies only a base for each foot. We could have used the aluminium panels from the zodiac but .. it’s a new dinghy, so I waded to shore to get me some of my beautiful interior panelling. As soon as he had bases for his weight, its just a question of one after the other until you’re out. At some stage I could not feel my toes. And if you look on the video you see my jacket clean when I’m pulling the dinghy, and that’s because of 20m or so of under a hot shower in the marina until I felt alive again.
But yeah, if you’re gonna get stuck.. then it HAS to be on a day full of onlookers we chose Easter Sunday to get stuck so we could have PLENTY of people and their dog watching. Luckily for us we were well camouflaged wearing bright red sailing jackets against the dark grey of the mud. I don’t think they spotted us…

 

[GregOddity]

Generally a dry spark plug on an engine that won't start indicates a fuel problem. ie no fuel. If the plug is very wet with fuel then it is an ignition problem. it seems to me that if reliability of engine is so critical then the only alternative is 2 engines. (or a dinghy style that can be easily rowed.)
Stories like this make me really appreciate how luck we are here in antipodes. No mud very small tides etc (oh and warm weather) olewill

(Mumbling unprintable words about small tides and warm weather)

I think it has to be a problem with temperature affecting the engine and fuel supply to the engine. Can't really think of any other explanation.

 

[PaulJS]

Could it be an ineffective choke linkage? Cold engine runs perfectly, but far too rich when warmed up...

 

[Uricanejack]

Yes, you were carrying an impressive list of "safety" equipment (mostly for calling for assistance) but an anchor would have done you more good.

Do you carry an anchor in your inflatable tender?
I probably should but don't or at least I haven't up till now. even though I have one at home.
I don't have a motor just oars. so if I can't row I don't go.

 

[GrahamM376]

At the moment I'm not in a dispute, yet. I'm just listening to what they are saying. I do find weird that I was "warned" about bad fuel problems when i was buying the outboard. I do know other people saying the same, so whats up with that???? is that a porblem with Mariner engines? is that a common thing? is it really the fuel? the press with have a field day if it was the fuel.

As Corribee72 says, in the unlikely event that bad fuel was being sold it would be publicised in the local press. Bad outboard fuel is a user problem - contaminated with water or sand or, left in vented tank or badly sealed can for long periods. Tens of thousands of users throughout Europe use road fuel with bio additive without any problems whatsoever but outboard dealers would rather blame that than admit to an unreliable product.

 

[Uricanejack]

Outboards and fuel.
As an owner and user of outboards most of my life. I can say.
Major PIA.
My first suspect if I have a problem.
spare plugs, carb cleaner and split pins are part of my usual kit.

The most annoying. I just had my 55 serviced. I screwed up used an old fuel can when I filled up for first run of the season. Old can must have had some gunge in the bottom.
Ran fine for a while on my first trip till I started fishing.
Helen Point big ebb. Good for fishing. Till your motor dies and there are two Ferries coming. The buggers do that regularly. Quite embarrassing to be dead in the water right in the main channel with your engine in bits. trying to clean plugs.(easy) and carbs(not so easy).
At least the 5 blasts stopped when they saw me paddling.

Got it to run again rather badly. Fuel Pump NFG. So engine back in for another service carbs and fuel pump needed rebuilt.

You had your motor running for a while though. My bigger motors have a high temp alarm. if cooling water intake gets blocked.
not sure if small ones do.
Could it have overheated?

 

[GregOddity]

As Corribee72 says, in the unlikely event that bad fuel was being sold it would be publicised in the local press. Bad outboard fuel is a user problem - contaminated with water or sand or, left in vented tank or badly sealed can for long periods. Tens of thousands of users throughout Europe use road fuel with bio additive without any problems whatsoever but outboard dealers would rather blame that than admit to an unreliable product.

Im kind of thinking along the same lines, c'mon this was fuel bought the day before at a BP station. I don't think it can be the fuel.

 

[GregOddity]

Do you carry an anchor in your inflatable tender?
I probably should but don't or at least I haven't up till now. even though I have one at home.
I don't have a motor just oars. so if I can't row I don't go.

I do, I would not go anywhere in anything that floats without an anchor and good line at least.

 

[GregOddity]

Outboards and fuel.
As an owner and user of outboards most of my life. I can say.
Major PIA.
My first suspect if I have a problem.
spare plugs, carb cleaner and split pins are part of my usual kit.

The most annoying. I just had my 55 serviced. I screwed up used an old fuel instead of my new one when I filled up for first run of the season. Old can must have had some gunge in the bottom.
Ran fine on my first trip till I started fishing. Helen Point big ebb. (5 6 Knots) Good for fishing. Till your motor dies and there are two Ferries coming. The buggers do that regularly. Quite embarrassing to be dead in the water right in the main channel with your engine in bits. trying to clean plugs.(easy) and carbs(not so easy).
At least the 5 blasts stopped when they saw me paddling.

Got it to run again rather badly. Fuel Pump NFG. So engine back in for another service carbs and fuel pump needed rebuilt.

You had your motor running for a while though. My bigger motors have a high temp alarm. if cooling water intake gets blocked.
not sure if small ones do.
Could it have overheated?

I did check when it stopped for the third time, I took the cover off and the engine felt warm but nowhere near very hot or anything. The third time just before it died I did see a lot of smoke coming out of the water, normally you don’t see anything. And it is always fun on a small zodiac to get the spark plugs out of the engine.

 

[prv]

Do you carry an anchor in your inflatable tender?

I have one. The usual folding grapnel, a couple of metres of 6mm chain, and a long length of 6 or 8mm line (can't remember exactly how long, but the point is that the smallness of the boat doesn't affect the length you need). It all fits in a small mesh bag I made specially, which is easy to take out of the locker and dump into the bow of the dinghy without any messing about.

Whether I put it on board for any given trip depends on the surroundings - for a short hop ashore from mooring to dinghy landing in an enclosed harbour there seems little point, whereas if we're travelling further afield or the anchorage is open to the sea then I'll bring it.

The oars go in the boat before I do - a rule I was taught as a small child. There's nothing more ridiculous than someone drifting helplessly away in a tender, with the oars (and possibly engine) still on the deck of the yacht, after fumbling the painter.

Pete

 

[Boathook]

Once you have it up and running, try to leave the carb empty of fuel (turn fuel off and run engine it until it stops) if it isn't going to be used for a few weeks. Modern petrol leaves a sticky residue in carbs as it evaporates and this can cause problems if enough builds up. I'm now quite good at stripping a Yamaha Malta carb !!

 

[ex-Gladys]

Once you have it up and running, try to leave the carb empty of fuel (turn fuel off and run engine it until it stops) if it isn't going to be used for a few weeks. Modern petrol leaves a sticky residue in carbs as it evaporates and this can cause problems if enough builds up. I'm now quite good at stripping a Yamaha Malta carb !!

Yes it does, but not whilst the engine is running... Back to the dealer!