Summer's here! Boatrage in the Solent

[Seafort]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

I agree.

With 5 yards to play with, I would say you are relying too much on the competence/experience of the other skipper.

Dave.

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[tom52]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

I agree also, 5 yards is too close for comfort.

Sounds like a case of Yachtmasteritis. (symptoms :- overconfidence and self righteousness)



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[jimi]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

first of all let me make it absolutely clear, there was never a risk of collision, the stand on boat never made any change of course except perhaps to bear away a bit in the last 20 yds so I could get full benefit of their opinions on me and my families parentage.

How could a person sitting on a rail make such a judgement from 100yds away and then decide to inform me of that judgement in such a rude, aggressive fashion. And I am talking a constant tirade ... Are you really saying that such behaviour is excusable?



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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jimi on 16/03/2003 14:41 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[tcm]

Re: Showing the other light

Yes, i agree with this - a significant obvious move showing intentions to go behind avoid any misunderstanding.



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[Violetta]

Half a boatlength?

You were in gusty winds, lumpy seas, no idea of the competence of the other skipper and you passed withing half a boatlength. What about all the things that could have affected relative speeds etc.? You say you would have had to gybe to pass astern. Obviously I can't picture the situation fully, but I doubt if that would have been the case if you had taken action in good time. Would it have killed you to harden up and tack, returning to your course once they were past? In our boat, if I understand the situation rightly, I might just have hove to on the other tack until the situation sorted itself out. Not such a chore, surely - and it would have saved all the anguish on both sides. Sorry, but it sounds to me as if you were the one in the wrong. Abuse not justified, but neither, IMHO, is injured innocence.

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[jimi]

Re: Half a boatlength?

Did say he'd borne away a bit to get closer to me (or perhaps to avoid going aground on the Brambles.) To be pedantic a stand on boat does have a duty to maintain course and speed!

OK then I'll accept the consensus I was in the wrong and I and my family deserved everything we got!

Just another couple of points:-

1) the abuse started well before any action was necessary, it was just after low tide so tide was flooding, I had just skirted the Brable bank so heaving to or tacking was not an option as I would have been carried onto the Brambles and gone aground .Another option was a gybe as to go behind would have been on a dead run (does'nt that tell you something about the relative courses!).
I was in fact considering this and working out if I could get away with this, a training run, or if the aspect was moving by sufficient amount when the abuse started. My other option was to bung the engine on and increase speed. I made the judgement that the aspect was changing sufficiently fast for it not to be an issue. IMHO at that sort of distance it is up to the giveway boat to decide its most appropriate course of action and for the stand on vessel to do so until it is required to do something to avoid collision. Quite frankly a heap of abuse is not something that tends to help in collision avoidance. And given the presence of children in the cockpit, was sick!


Also in gusty conditions did'nt want to pass too close to windward as he could have been caught by a gust and pushed up into the wind.

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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Just got back from fantastic sail back up Solent from Stingo's do.

Entering Soton Water alomst due north on a Starboard tack was copnfronted by 100s of racers passing W to E. so I figure I'm the stand on vessel. However, they are clearly only intent on their own course. beating to windward. I had plenty of time so I gave way (not much choice really as they were tanking along) and passed behind them. Only one skipper has the decency to acknowledge what I'd done.

There've been threads like this before of the cruiser v racer type which I've not entered into - but this time they really were pretty bad - their fixed stares ahead told me they knew I was there and that they were the give way. It was not a problem, however, it did cause me to comment to SWMBO that a couple of years ago it would have required a change of underwear afterwards - we've all been new to the game sometime or other.

What would have been the position legally if having given way, I caused and accident?

Magic



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[qsiv]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Bit like the Devonians 'sometimes I sits and thinks, sometimes I just sits'

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[qsiv]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Having passed I would have thought that a nice little tack to sit on their weather whilst you discuss the merits of Colregs calmly and quietly with them would soon have them seeking clear air - oh and if you need the engine to help maintain station, dont forget that cone!

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[qsiv]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

5 Yds? yikes my masthead or boom covers much more than that, as does our beam.

I was always brought up to pass far enough away to allow for complete steering failure - not sure that 5 yds is anything like enough.

I was also taught to do all close quarters manouevering on the basis of complete engine failure - my father would sometimes just put the gear lever in neutral - and tell me to get out of the hole without using the engine. As I was brought up on both the Yealm and Lymington, it made you concentrate on escape routes!

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[Violetta]

You got me baffled, I\'m afraid

Earlier, you said you were confident you could take action in plenty of time if necessary - one reason you decided to stand on. Here, you say you couldn't take any action when the situation got tight as you had obstructions to windward and couldn't gybe to go astern of them. (I'm not familiar with the area, but can't help wondering where they were headed if things were so tight to windward that you couldn't tack) But if you really were heading into such a tight spot, wasn't that a good reason in itself to take early action? I agree with you about the abuse, though. Always pointless. Anyway, all's well that ends well.

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[jimi]

Re: You got me baffled, I\'m afraid

Forgive me if I've been less than clear on this post, but it's not about collision regs, or even a potential collision. The potential collision only existed in the mind of the lady perched on the windward rail. Even after bearing away to avoid Brambles the leeward boat passed behind me.
The point of the original post was faced with an extremely vocal and provocative person, how would you react? Think the answer really has to be keep smiling! It looks as if I'm cursed to meet these women .. couple of months ago a very posh woman whacked my car with her riding crop as I passed because she deemed I was driving too fast for the conditions, fortunately I had other people in the car who knew I had been driving with care & consideration and duly took her to task.
I find it difficult to smile and turn the other cheek when faced with rudeness and arrogance and what my post was about was people's coping mechanisms in such circumstances.

I completely agree that if I were the give way boat I must make every effort to give way and be seen to give way. If not I'd be the first to hold my hands up!

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[bedouin]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

There's the answer then - you were give way vessel, yet you crossed ahead by just 5 yards - you were wrong on 2 counts and deserved everything you got.

Given how close you got, had you taken early action it would have taken only a small change of course (either way) to avoid the problem. From even 100 yds away, altering course 5 degrees would have passed safe behind, or heading up and slowing down a little would have let them pass by safely as well.

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[Trevor_swfyc]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Jimi, What you doing in my boat!

Bit worried that you are going to damage it, but I know what you mean I am fed up with cyclist who keep banging into my nearside wing mirror as I pass and then add insult to injury by shouting abuse. It really spoils my day. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

All the best.
Trevor



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[claymore]

Sail in a Kilt Jamesie

An gie the wee teuchter a sicht o' yer great hairy airse.

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Claymore
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[jimi]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Forgive me, but are you thick or what? Yyou've not only missed completely the point of the post but your statements are factually incorrect. As the give way vessel it is my duty to take action if necessary to avoid collision, no such action was necessary and as I've constantly reiterated it was the change of course by the stand on vessel which caused it to come so close.
Unfortunately statements like yours justifying verbal abuse of that nature makes me think I'd rather not be sailing.

As I've tried to say time and time again the risk of collision was imaginary,existing only in some poor soul's tortured imagination, and irrelevant to the question asked here which was "How do you cope with stupid prats who act in a rude,ignorant and arrogant fashion" .. as you can see I do have a tendency to bite back which I'd like to curb!

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[claymore]

Coping Mechanisms

I wonder if there are people who are consistently calm in situations such as the one described. People who can smile, nod in some sage manner and not rise to the Red Mist.
I have a stream of dastardly plots stored away in the dark recesses of my vindictive mind - a catapult and a handful of lugworms into the mainsail, a well aimed bottle of red indelible ink, perhaps in extremis a parachute flair into the gob of the offender. Whilst there may be great satisfaction gained from dreaming up these excellent and devastating strategies - I suppose the most effective is to return a silent sad measured shake of the head and not engage. Perhaps a Clement Freud type glance might add a bit more weight.
Its really difficult isn't it because all you really want to do is get hold of a handful of throat and give them a good slap.
As someone has already said, once you go there you've reached their level.

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Claymore
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[jimi]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Oi I had it first .. maybe we ought to have a race /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

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[Trevor_swfyc]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

Only if you promise not to ram me as yours looks bigger than mine! oh and I promise not to shout abuse. Also how can you claim to be first we havn't raced yet.

Happy sailing!

Trevor



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[l'escargot]

Re: Summer\'s here! Boatrage in the Solent

If you can get yourself in such a situation at this time if year, I think that you are best not let out without a responsible adult in the Solent in season. Right or wrong it is best to steer clear of w*****s and there are more of them in the summer.
If you see another boat, avoid hitting it. (unless it's Cowes week and it's fair game to argue col. regs.)

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