Stupid - hit breakwater stones ...

[Refueler]

The repaired keel is still open inside cabin .... intention is to fill with expansion foam and then glass over ...

2 reasons ... one we need a support for the glass mat / resin to bridge the opening .... second to fill the void space to avoid collection of any water ...

The original was closed off as a tank space. Something that I have no need of.

 

[Refueler]

OK .. keel space not filled with expansion foam and glassed over ...

Can clearly see the keel space ....

Now its to finish the outside .... grind into the external crack - fill - glass + matt ..... seal and prime / antifoul.

Once done - then its clean up inside - its a mess of fibres / dust and **** everywhere !! Then fit new furniture facing / shelves ....

 

[lusitano]

OK .. keel space not filled with expansion foam and glassed over ...

Can clearly see the keel space ....

Now its to finish the outside .... grind into the external crack - fill - glass + matt ..... seal and prime / antifoul.

Once done - then its clean up inside - its a mess of fibres / dust and **** everywhere !! Then fit new furniture facing / shelves ....

OK .. keel space not filled with expansion foam and glassed over ...

Can clearly see the keel space ....

Now its to finish the outside .... grind into the external crack - fill - glass + matt ..... seal and prime / antifoul.

Once done - then its clean up inside - its a mess of fibres / dust and **** everywhere !! Then fit new furniture facing / shelves ....

Assuming you mean keel space "now" filled with expansion foam ?
If so, was it closed cell foam ?

 

[Refueler]

Assuming you mean keel space "now" filled with expansion foam ?
If so, was it closed cell foam ?

Of course ... its actually same as some builders use to seal in windows etc...

Despite some 'experts' claiming its not suitable - its proven a) weather proof, b) UV resistant, c) closed cell .... It takes up zero water ....

The use of such is not structural or to seal anything ... its to prevent any bilge / grey water filling the space - when we opened up the original space - it was obvious that such had occurred previously .... tide marks were clearly visible.

 

[lusitano]

Of course ... its actually same as some builders use to seal in windows etc...

Despite some 'experts' claiming its not suitable - its proven a) weather proof, b) UV resistant, c) closed cell .... It takes up zero water ....

The use of such is not structural or to seal anything ... its to prevent any bilge / grey water filling the space - when we opened up the original space - it was obvious that such had occurred previously .... tide marks were clearly visible.

I,ve been looking for closed cell foam but without success.
Can you please provide me with a link
Thanks

 

[Refueler]

I,ve been looking for closed cell foam but without success.
Can you please provide me with a link
Thanks

Local DIY / Builders merchants will have 'Macroflex' or other brand ... shouldn't be hard to find ... most of todays builders use such now ...

Just have to check label carefully as there are a lot of different grades depending on job ..

Here's what we used ... All Weather Grade.

Produkti

 

[lusitano]

Local DIY / Builders merchants will have 'Macroflex' or other brand ... shouldn't be hard to find ... most of todays builders use such now ...

Just have to check label carefully as there are a lot of different grades depending on job ..

Here's what we used ... All Weather Grade.

Produkti

Local DIY / Builders merchants will have 'Macroflex' or other brand ... shouldn't be hard to find ... most of todays builders use such now ...

Just have to check label carefully as there are a lot of different grades depending on job ..

Here's what we used ... All Weather Grade.

Produkti

It is actually quite difficult to find closed cell PU foam. Most are open cell and some are small cell.
Two componant is the best I have found so far, but even they won,t guarantee 100% waterproof.
Thanks for the Macroflex link, I,ll check them out.

 

[fredrussell]

Of course ... its actually same as some builders use to seal in windows etc...

Despite some 'experts' claiming its not suitable - its proven a) weather proof, b) UV resistant, c) closed cell .... It takes up zero water ....

Well I’m definitely no expert but I do work on building sites and if it’s the ‘inverted can and gun’ stuff you’re using I’m pretty sure it’s not closed cell. For reasons I don’t fully understand actual closed cell expanding foam is very hard to buy, at least in the Uk. I’ve tried finding it a few times over the years for various projects but never succeeded.

 

[lusitano]

Despite some 'experts' claiming its not suitable - its proven a) weather proof, b) UV resistant, c) closed cell .... It takes up zero water ....



Ūdens absorbcija, 24h
EN 1609 maks. 1 %
Ūdens absorbcija, 28 dienas
EN 12087 maks. 10 %

Yeh right - 10% absorption in under a month - Always Read the Label !

 

[Refueler]

Despite some 'experts' claiming its not suitable - its proven a) weather proof, b) UV resistant, c) closed cell .... It takes up zero water ....



Ūdens absorbcija, 24h
EN 1609 maks. 1 %
Ūdens absorbcija, 28 dienas
EN 12087 maks. 10 %

Yeh right - 10% absorption in under a month - Always Read the Label !

Fine ... but having actually tested the grade we used a number of times in my Lab - we found the water absorption to be in practical terms zero. We tested due to fact that we wanted to use it for insulation of various test gear that needed to stay out in all weathers ...

You can do the test easily yourself .... buy a can ... spray a decent size and once foamed / set - take a reasonable scale and weigh it .... leave it in a bucket of water floating ... after days ... lift - wipe of surface water and weigh again .... Well I never !!

Standards are that - standards that a product must meet or exceed.

For the job done on my keels - in fact it makes no real difference whether closed or not and also to water absorption ... the space is sealed ....

 

[Daydream believer]

You can do the test easily yourself .... buy a can ... spray a decent size and once foamed / set - take a reasonable scale and weigh it .... leave it in a bucket of water floating ... after days ... lift - wipe of surface water and weigh again .... Well I never !!

With all due respects I would not call that a test. Or at least from your description I would not. Just floating on the surface would rely on capilliary action drawing the water up into the product.
Obviously the test has to be geared to the intended use. If the intended use is floating on water ( or in your case temporary insulation) , then fair enough.
However, if the product had been forcibly immersed such that it was fully surrounded by water at a predetermined depth( be that 1 inch or 20feet) then I suggest that the result regarding water absorbsion may well be different.
'
I am also aware that some foams form a skin on the surface. If the sample is sliced it could expose a much more open cell structure that may affect the test. This skin may/maynot form if the material is applied against a surface that may then allow water to allow water to seep along the junction. Some foams do not develop correctly if applied in bulk. The core remaining "sticky" or having a different cell structure due to the absence of moisture to aid setting. The foam needs to be applied in layers. This will affect its performance & your test does not seem to have addressed this property.
I do not know as I am not conversant with the foam in question. But it does seem obvious as a starting point. Those in the test industry would have much better knowledge on the matter.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I built a jetty using some floats from our marina that was filled with superseded closed ceil float but it soaked up water and the old jetty sunk.''

I dug out the foam and water then filled the float with cold drink bottled as extra floatation

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I built a jetty using some floats from our marina that was filled with superseded closed ceil float but it soaked up water and the old jetty sunk.''

I dug out the foam and water then filled the float with cold drink bottled as extra floatation

Indeed.I know someone with their own pontoon, when they bought the house the pontoon was foam filled. It gradually sank. We all had a working weekend, and a mucky business it was. Hauled the pontoon out, dug out the waterlogged foam, and refilled the space with coke and lemonade bottles we’d all saved and scrounged.

 

[lusitano]

Thank you for request of closed cell PU foam.

Unfortunately we don`t have this product in assortment.



Lugupidamisega



Ahto Laur

KAM Moment, Metylan, Ceresit, Makroflex Estonia

Phone +372 7305852

Mob.+372 5178450

www.makroflex.ee

www.loctite-superattak.ee

www.moment-liimid.ee

www.ceresit.ee

www.niiskuseimaja.ee

Reply from your "Closed Cell Foam" suppliers .
You really need to be careful what you write on here - heaven forbid somebody might act on your advice !

 

[fredrussell]

Which brings us on to the next question: why is expanding closed cell foam so hard to find?

 

[Refueler]

Keel has now been ground out - filled and resin'd - ready to antifoul ...

Rudder is being given a resin / matt coat before refitting.

New cabin woodwork cut and ready for fitting once guy ready ..

Photos later.

 

[Refueler]

OK slight mistake made ... outer external keel ready for primer / antifoul but inner external still needs grinding out / filling etc. GRP guy asked if we could raise boat up and off the blocks so he can get in there .....

Outer external - very neat nice job :

OK .. off the blocks and sort how to raise her up .. all the cradles are for Fin kee;ls ... mine's first BK boat they have had !!

I suggest using my slings and a Fin keel cradle ... stern will be ok .. slings for fwd narrow section ...

Now we can get to inner keel easily ...

 

[Refueler]

Once the inner keel joint is ground, filled, matt / resin ... then it will be light overall sanding of hull ready for primer where GRP work made and then overall Antifoul.

Once that's done - she can be stood on her keels .....

Final phase is then to rebuild the cabin 'furniture' ... when removing to access the internal keel area - woodwork was found rotten ... but lets be honest - boat was built in about 1973 .... so that's not bad 50 odd yrs !!
I have new woodwork cut using old as patterns ready to install.

 

[Bouba]

Looking good !….interesting that the yard isn’t used to bilge keels…have you got the right hull for the local waters ?

 

[justanothersailboat]

I don't think it's anywhere near as tidal there as in the parts of the UK and France where twin keelers have been popular, but they still work fine...