Studland - MMO Management protocols for the MCZ in place from 17th December

[chrishscorp]

Just filled that out, very few responses 21, and looking at the results some quite odd answers, so putting a weight limit on the eco mooring a legal requirement at least 4 people disagree with writing a weight limit on there, hilarious. This may be worth sharing with sailing friends to get this out there or certain other groups may try to hijack the survey.

 

[ZBM2]

I am on a facebook page that was set up to cover the changes at Studland and it is quite clear some think its all about seahorses and its voluntary init so we can do what we like

So I guess we sit back and wait for the mandatory ban

If you think otherwise, you might want to look up 'voluntary' in a dictionary.

 

[chrishscorp]

Well, I received a live update from a friend overnighting at Studland last night.

10 Eco moorings laid, 3 in use, whilst 10 yachts opted to anchor in the seagrass beds ignoring the the 7 free moorings

 

[Boathook]

Well, I received a live update from a friend overnighting at Studland last night.

10 Eco moorings laid, 3 in use, whilst 10 yachts opted to anchor in the seagrass beds ignoring the the 7 free moorings

If it is the same 10 as last year they are to far out for most boats wishing to stay at Studland and go ashore to the beach and or pub. Even if I was staying on board they are too far out for me and don't have the same shelter as much further in.

 

[jaminb]

We stayed on the Eco's for 2 x 24 periods last week. Long dinghy ride to the beach and got quite rolley for a few hours at a certain tide state, but there was availability both times we turned up and and the crew slept better knowing they were not relying on our anchor. This was despite the anchor having worked faultlessly at Pottery Pier! On the friday day you would have struggled to find any sea grass through the carpet of boats anchored on it.

 

[Laser310]

Any of you who sail the Solent will know Daedalous airport, Spitfires regularly fly out of there, well NE have declared it a secondary site for Brent Geese not sure what effect that will have on the site, but one birder whom i think was in the glider club said in 50 years he has never spotted Brent geese there and they carry out regular detailed bird counts and checks. Local council has just poured £53M into the site.

There appears to be no evidence whatsoever for these birds to have ever roosted there, NE seem to me to be completely out of control.

Fury as Natural England decides that an airport is an important area for Brent geese | The News (portsmouth.co.uk)

The problem here is that elected officials have abdicated their responsibility to various QUANGO's

I'm not saying the designation is wrong - I don't know anything about it.., but giving essentially unaccountable organizations this much power is a mistake.

many people assume that those in charge of the QUANGO's are reasonable people who seek measured solutions to problems.., and understand that their are competing interests at stake. This might be true in some cases.., but in general the people running these organizations are on a mission.., and that mission is total prohibition of various activities that give joy to people's lives. They will not tell you that.., but they will chip a way, and chip away, until nothing is left.

 

[jaminb]

The problem here is that elected officials have abdicated their responsibility to various QUANGO's

I'm not saying the designation is wrong - I don't know anything about it.., but giving essentially unaccountable organizations this much power is a mistake.

many people assume that those in charge of the QUANGO's are reasonable people who seek measured solutions to problems.., and understand that their are competing interests at stake. This might be true in some cases.., but in general the people running these organizations are on a mission.., and that mission is total prohibition of various activities that give joy to people's lives. They will not tell you that.., but they will chip a way, and chip away, until nothing is left.

Really? Why ? Call me naive but I can’t see it

 

[Laser310]

Really? Why ? Call me naive but I can’t see it

because they have an agenda - a complete end to "consumerism", because it is bad for the planet (they say) .., and that includes any kind of yachting.

some may believe that these people are disinterested observers, who occasionally identify a problem.., and come up with a policy prescription to solve it.

i believe it is the other way around: they have a policy they would like to see enacted.., and they invent problems to which they can apply their policy.

their ultimate goal is the end of recreational boating (and many other pastimes as well) - they don't want you and your boat out in "their" natural environment. nor, are they happy about the boat building industry - and no amount of greeening of either the activity or the industry will satisfy them; after all.., no boat building or boat owning will always be greener than green boat building or green boat owning.

I know.., you don't believe me.

I say; wait and see...

chip.., chip.., chip...

 

[Seven Spades]

We are 26 tons. If they don’t make provision for larger boats I may have to risk it in settled weather

 

[Lodestone]

Snippet from industry press - seagrass monitoring project using acoustic bottom classification. These techniques have been around for years (e.g. Echoplus, Roxanne etc.) - processing sonar returns for 'extra' information. It is still interpretative rather than exact measurement but technology marches on. South West England innovators collaborate to develop enhanced solutions for seagrass monitoring - Ocean Business | Southampton | 12-14 October 2021

 

[oldharry]

It will only work if it gives the 'right' results.....

 

[RogerJolly]

On here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...dland_Bay_MCZ_Frequently_Asked_Questions_.pdf

It says "The installation of marker buoys is not currently planned, but we will review this
going forward. MMO is working to notify relevant organisations to update
navigational charts, apps and services, and have developed leaflets to aid vessel
owners in understanding where the voluntary no anchor zone is located."

Has anyone seen the zone on their charts yet?

Seems odd you have to go to some lengths to find out you're in the wrong.

For all we know we could be breaking hundreds of laws/rules a day without knowing about them.

 

[chrishscorp]

On here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...dland_Bay_MCZ_Frequently_Asked_Questions_.pdf

It says "The installation of marker buoys is not currently planned, but we will review this
going forward. MMO is working to notify relevant organisations to update
navigational charts, apps and services, and have developed leaflets to aid vessel
owners in understanding where the voluntary no anchor zone is located."

Has anyone seen the zone on their charts yet?

Seems odd you have to go to some lengths to find out you're in the wrong.

For all we know we could be breaking hundreds of laws/rules a day without knowing about them.

Many of us repeatedly suggested the use of zone marker buoys to indicate where not to go.

They have had plenty of notice to get it into Almanacs, electronic charting systems, paper charts and so on, they have clearly chosen to dawdle over the task I can only presume this is either deliberate or just plain incompetence.

 

[Lodestone]

It will only work if it gives the 'right' results.....

Exactly OldHarry. Of course they just have to look at the data and apply the logic of a witchfinder ... Alas there is no black cat emoji so I shall use a rat instead as I'm sure one or two of those are 'familiar' to us in this sorry tale of confirmation bias. ?

On a more serious note the system will probably look at the whole 'ping' from a bathymetric sonar as there is information in the entire waveform that can be used to infer for example 'roughness' of the seabed. You have to ground truth and train the system, no doubt some AI will come into it somewhere. It is still an interpretative assessment rather than a direct or absolute measurement. It is also a single beam rather than multibeam approach so bottom coverage will be limited. The technique has been kicking around for years with varying degrees of success. Of course now there will be an inexpensive method (relative to a vessel, crew and survey spread) to measure seagrass extents. A such I wonder whether it is now harder for the MMO to reject calls for a proper experiment to observe how anchorages recover? That however might be a double-edged sword.

 

[oldharry]

Ground truthing is the demon behind any observational technique from or above the surface. ẞeagrass beds trap à lot of loose material particularly where there are gaps, and it is easy to refute any observation that does not clearly distinguish between rooted and loose vegetation particularly if you are trying to prove instability!

Aerial photography for example is firmly rejected by NE to assess the size of a seagrass meadow. Curious as it is a tool widely used elsewhere to monitor general seagrass recovery and growth.

 

[Boathook]

Aerial photography for example is firmly rejected by NE to assess the size of a seagrass meadow. Curious as it is a tool widely used elsewhere to monitor general seagrass recovery and growth.

Thats because it does not fit their agenda and would prove that Studland is very healthy.

 

[oldharry]

Exactly! Couldnt believe it when they refused to accept aerial photo evidence of the way the growth has expanded since 1970. Its a standard measuring tool. Not 'ground truthed' was the response. If ever the was evdence of the whole Studland exercise being agenda driven, this is the worst.

This the area that NE claim is 'in need of recovery', and is substantially the current VNAZ.

Aerial Images

 

[stephen_h]

We anchored at Studland last week. Just on the edge of the zone according to the Navionics on my Phone. There were a few other boats also outside the zone
but way more anchored in the zone. Most of these boats left in the evenings so assume they were local to Poole harbour so it looks like the locals are ignoring it all together.
To top it all a lifeboat out training also anchored smack in the middle of it!
All the white and orange mooring bouys were being used.

 

[bignick]

In answer to a previous question, the map showing the zone is difficult to find. I don’t know how they expect everyone to comply with the voluntary rules if they don’t publicise them properly. Navionics just shows the entire bay as a Marine Conservation Zone, but doesn’t mark the VNAZ. However, the phase 2 VNAZ only covers the southern part of the bay.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...land_Bay_MCZ_Habitat_Protection_Strategy_.pdf

Now I’ve looked at the map a few times I just make sure I’m more than 39 minutes North… it makes very little difference to me being an extra 500m North, so I do what I can and it doesn’t stop me going to Studland.

incidentally, we’ve been mackerel fishing quite a few times off Old Harry recently. It’s been quite surprising just how much eel grass washes past you, which must be getting dislodged by people anchoring. It’s a pain when you’re fishing, but would give easy ammunition to the environmentalists as “proof” that damage is being done. (Yes I do understand that eelgrass repairs itself quickly, but that’s not what the SHT or Natural England will argue.)

 

[Boathook]

In answer to a previous question, the map showing the zone is difficult to find. I don’t know how they expect everyone to comply with the voluntary rules if they don’t publicise them properly. Navionics just shows the entire bay as a Marine Conservation Zone, but doesn’t mark the VNAZ. However, the phase 2 VNAZ only covers the southern part of the bay.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...land_Bay_MCZ_Habitat_Protection_Strategy_.pdf

Now I’ve looked at the map a few times I just make sure I’m more than 39 minutes North… it makes very little difference to me being an extra 500m North, so I do what I can and it doesn’t stop me going to Studland.

incidentally, we’ve been mackerel fishing quite a few times off Old Harry recently. It’s been quite surprising just how much eel grass washes past you, which must be getting dislodged by people anchoring. It’s a pain when you’re fishing, but would give easy ammunition to the environmentalists as “proof” that damage is being done. (Yes I do understand that eelgrass repairs itself quickly, but that’s not what the SHT or Natural England will argue.)

I would like to know why the 'grass' has expanded over the last 40 years.
Easterly winds always create 'grass' moving with the tide, the amount being pulled up by anchors is negligible compared with the wind.