Studland - MMO Management protocols for the MCZ in place from 17th December

[penfold]

It's a terrible argument for a mandatory ban, but then the argument for the NAZ is terrible also, at least they're consistent in that; it needs an eccentric millionaire to challenge this illiberal load of testicles in court and get it thrown out.

 

[sfellows]

Not that I'm cynical:

If it works (the grass comes back) then they will extend the "no anchoring" because it proves it works.
If it doesn't work (the grass doesn't come back) then they will extend the "no anchoring" because it proves that the area wasn't big enough to have any impact.

Bit like witch dunking; if she doesn't drown she must be a witch so burn her, if she does drown....

 

[oldharry]

Not that I'm cynical:

If it works (the grass comes back) then they will extend the "no anchoring" because it proves it works.
If it doesn't work (the grass doesn't come back) then they will extend the "no anchoring" because it proves that the area wasn't big enough to have any impact.

Bit like witch dunking; if she doesn't drown she must be a witch so burn her, if she does drown....

Hmm, but the grass has never gone away in the first place. Also nobody measured it until this year, so it will take 10 - 15 years before there is anything definitive. Eelgrass has a known 10 year cycle of growth and retreat anyway. It would seem it peaked in around 2018, so we are more than likely to be blamed for any die back until its starts on the next growth cycle. This will of course 'prove' the NAZ is working! Or not.

 

[temptress]

well I do not volenteer

 

[wayfarer8088]

PS. The MMO seems to have very strange approaches to map projections, which doesn’t correspond to any nautical conventions

Might I ask what leads you to suspect that the MMO use a non-standard map projection?

Richard

 

[Boathook]

Might I ask what leads you to suspect that the MMO use a non-standard map projection?

Richard

To confuse boat owners and prosecute them?

 

[dunedin]

Might I ask what leads you to suspect that the MMO use a non-standard map projection?

Richard

I don’t have the papers immediately to hand, but you can look them up - and look for the statements of the projections they used, often printed in boxes to the side of the map they use.

But if I recall correctly
* in one case, for example, they had a square grid whereby a minute of latitude was the same size as a minute of longitude (whereas as you go North the longitude lines converge) distorting the geometry
* maps not oriented with North up
* on no cases I have seen overlaid on the UKHO chart - which would have shown stuff like charted depths, essential to understand anchorage areas
etc

 

[Yealm]

What's the scientific evidence the MMO are following?
And would mooring buoys be a solution ?

 

[oldharry]

What's the scientific evidence the MMO are following?
And would mooring buoys be a solution ?

There is a link in the first post which summarises MMO's position, and in turn links to a library of supporting documentation. They are following specific advice given by Natural England, which reveals that there has been virtually no actual on site research. Nearly all the NE recommendations are based on 'expert opinion'. There is hardly any supporting data from the actual site.

Most of us know from first hand observation there is no actual issue with boats anchoring here. The eelgrass was destroyed in the 1930's by a wasting disease that killed much of Europes eelgrass. It re-established in the early 1950's.

The Bay resumed its role as a highly popular anchorage with the post war boating boom in the 1950's, and has been a highly popular anchorage ever since. In 1955 there was around 200 sq m of eelgrass. Since then the bed has grown to nearly 100 hectares, throughout which time hundreds of boats have anchored there every fine weekend in the summer. Eelgrass and seahorses thrived, and are to be found right across the prime anchoring area.

I have seen for myself acre after acre of healthy eelgrass growth in the anchorage area, which when evaluated using standard metrics, shows it to be above the general standard for Dorset, fully confirmed by the only professional survey ever undertaken.
See my website for the arguments, and tell me whether mooring buoys are actually needed: Here

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Don't get angry: get even.

 

[SteveA]

Studland Bay isn't the only area that Natural England is interested in.
I've had a call today from Buccleuch estates today on behalf of Boughton estates about moorings between Roa Island and Foulney Island (North coast of Morecambe Bay)
Natural England have suggested that all those moorings should be moved somewhere more suitable out of the back bay.
The subject of Eel grass or lack of it has been raised again by Natural England
It would appear that they think Eel grass would grow there if all the boats went.
I know some on here have been dealing with this sort of thing for a long time and I would really appreciate any help they can give me.
There are over 40 private mooring involved that have been there for many decades and there are no 'more suitable' areas to relocate to.

 

[penfold]

Eel grass in Morecambe bay? I'd have thought it far too turbid.

 

[SteveA]

Eel grass in Morecambe bay? I'd have thought it far too turbid.

A recent survey by NE has identified over 40ha of the two main types of eel grass within Morecambe Bay SAC!

 

[penfold]

A recent survey by NE has identified over 40ha of the two main types of eel grass within Morecambe Bay SAC!

Great news, there's plenty of it so it doesn't need pandering to in the local environment!

 

[doug748]

Studland Bay isn't the only area that Natural England is interested in.
I've had a call today from Buccleuch estates today on behalf of Boughton estates about moorings between Roa Island and Foulney Island (North coast of Morecambe Bay)
Natural England have suggested that all those moorings should be moved somewhere more suitable out of the back bay.
The subject of Eel grass or lack of it has been raised again by Natural England
It would appear that they think Eel grass would grow there if all the boats went.
I know some on here have been dealing with this sort of thing for a long time and I would really appreciate any help they can give me.
There are over 40 private mooring involved that have been there for many decades and there are no 'more suitable' areas to relocate to.

If you do a basic search you will probably find that nobody has ever suggested that the presence of boats has ever prevented eelgrass from growing in the immediate area. Any "problems" such as they may be, have been attributed to mooring chains scouring the seabed and forming areas of poor growth. If there is no grass in the vicinity then there is no obvious mechanism for it arriving, even if all boat moorings are removed from the whole of the bay.

There has been survey work in Morecambe Bay, I see there has been problems with a laid pipeline in your area, you need to access the charts and see what their case really might be. If it turns out the seagrass is around your mooring field you might first suggest that Natural England might like to sponsor alternative mooring methods on a trial basis. Secondly, I would get back to your estate manager and see what he suggests as an alternative in the long term, it does no harm to mention the loss of revenue to the estate or to suggest the possibility of inshore developments of the marina type. Their eyes may light up or they may reel back in shock but anyway you introduce the idea that there is no 10 minute fix.

As you probably know, checking the sterling work done by BORG is your first step:

Seahorse Issues

If you have a good, time served Academic on your team get them involved ASAP. Piecing together chains of argument and information from clumps of documentation is what they relish.

.

 

[oldharry]

BORG website for a full rundown on the arguments we used in Studland to prevent an outright ban. I am surprised NE has not suggested the moorings are switched to eco friendly AMS (advanced mooring systems). This will happen anyway as when a mooring anywhere poutside a Harbour Authtority jursidiction is lifted for inspection, it cannot be legally relaid without a licence from the MMO. These licences will not be granted unless an approved AMS is deployed. NE have absolutely no businesses to be asking for moorings to be moved: AMS's are accepted internationally as a means of preserving eelgrass beds in mooring areas.

More info from the RYA Marine Licences - Further Information

 

[penfold]

As long as scallop dredging and similar bottom trawling activities are allowed with little practical restriction this mooring/anchoring fascism is one of the more absurd bits of greenwashing that have been foisted upon us.

 

[oldharry]

As long as scallop dredging and similar bottom trawling activities are allowed with little practical restriction this mooring/anchoring fascism is one of the more absurd bits of greenwashing that have been foisted upon us.

Couldn't agree more. Anchoring to trawling is like a kids bucket and spade to a motorway construction bulldozer. Minor disturbance to wholesale destruction.

 

[SteveA]

Couldn't agree more. Anchoring to trawling is like a kids bucket and spade to a motorway construction bulldozer. Minor disturbance to wholesale destruction.

My thanks for the links and advice. Our position may be slightly different to others as all the moorings are individually owned with no payment to anyone for them and are never lifted for inspection; we simply walk out to them to change the riser chain. The bay is dry from about half tide with the upper reaches only getting covered on springs. I have seen the effects of bottom trawling when mussel dredgers totally destroyed a large mussel bed - off Founley Island! It looks like I have got some reading to do and hope to get an amicable agreement with NE and Boughton Estates.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Swithch off the AIS and scrape along the bottom with something to pull it all up. Analogous to a developer cutting down nice trees before putting in the planning application where a TPO might have then been put in place first.