STUDLAND - How much do they want???

[oldharry]

Balanced seas report - how to find out.....

Log on to: http://www.balancedseas.org/page/RSG Resources.html

Here is a full list of areas in the South Eastern Balanced Seas Sector, with two designations rMCZ and rRA. Find the area you are interested in and open it (adobe reader needed). There are several pages of information, and maps for each entry.

For information relevant to leisure boating activities in MCZs:
Scroll down towards the end and find the last of the tables, a page or two from the end, the third column of which is headed 'Activity Exerting pressure' Look for references to Recreational and leisure boating.

Col 1 is the feature to be conserved.

Col 2 'Draft CO' This identifies the 'Conservation Objective' and vulnerability assesment.
'Maintain' objective means as a rule that any activity in the zone is sustainable with existing use, and activities are at an acceptable level.

'Recover' means that the feature is being damaged by existing activity, and steps need to be taken to limit or stop the damage.

Column 4 gives the suggested means of acheiving Conservation Objectives

The final column, Stakeholder comments... gives more information.

Notes in the final paragraphs enlarge on the above, and need to be read in conjunction with the table.

Most of the rest of the report gives detail on location, sources, how the evidence was collected and detailed information about the various features to be conserved.

The second designation rRA lists the recommended Reference areas

Reference areas are exclusion zones, mostly for the seabed. In these areas anything that interferes with the conservation feature will not be allowed. This includes anchoring, as well as any form of bottom fishing activity, potting, trawling etc.

Two or three maps appear for each entry, find the one which gives the location of the actual area concerned, with a brown line marking the limits.

Below that is a table similar to the MCZ sets, gving activities affected and so on, followed by notes on the area.

As always THESE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS, and are NOT the final defintive list of areas. We dont get that until DEFRA, JNCC and NE have considered it all over the next 6 - 8 months, and have decided what to submit to the Government.

These reports identify conservation features, supplying all the available data for consideration. Economists are preparing reports of economic and social impacts for each area, from which NE and DEFRA will be able to identify how the features should be protected.

 

[Twister_Ken]

How much is all this costing the nation? What about austerity?

 

[oldharry]

How much is all this costing the nation? What about austerity?

Exactly. I strongly suspect the conservationists are getting very twitchy indeed about the possiblity of the government pulling the plug on the whole thing once they find out the sheer scale and cost of the thing. I would be very surprised if it was not at least cut down to the barest minimum needed to comply with EU and International treaty demands. However it has been said that it would cost UK a great deal more in fines for non-compliance than to implement it.

 

[oldharry]

Finding Sanctuary Final report

Finding Sanctuary has late this afternoon produced its Final Report, downloadable in a huge (45+mb) adobe file of over 1000 pages. Dont try if you have a slow connection!

Studland Bay has been recommended as an MCZ.

http://findingsanctuary.marinemapping.com/FindingSanctuary_FinalReport_07Sep2011.pdf

Studland followers need to refer to pages 391 - 407.

Like Balanced Seas this report identifies the areas considered suitable for the MCZ network, but does not identify how these areas should be protected other than highlighting the issues surrounding them. This has yet to be decided.

Note that the Eelgrass, Seahorses of both species, and Undulate Rays are designated as 'recovery' Objective, which means it is recommended that measures are needed to protect the species. This will mean 'damaging activities' need to be reviewed and steps taken to reduce or stop them. the document includes some discussion on possible measures.

 

[sea urchin]

The Balanced Seas report, plus a conservationist's view reported on Channel 4 news tonight refer to fears that the whole exercise is just creating a "paper park". Perhaps you are right and the penny is just dropping.
Oh dear! not only a waste of time and money for all the meetings, admin etc so far, but what about all the trees felled to provide the paper for the "paper park". Not very green or conservation minded.

 

[DAKA]

Who knows, maybe it would be shown that constant ploughing up by anchors actually invigorates the growth of eelgrass and hence the increase since the war?

It is claimed the anchor ploughs do not help however above the eel grass in areas of low or no anchoring is extensive blanket weed, eel grass can not establish itself under the blanket weed.
Its apparent that anchor chains clear the blanket weed very quickly and keep it clear for the season.

Thats why it is important that boats maintain their normal anchoring habits in STudland with the exception to any restricted areas under study.

In my opinion (after diving to look) the experimental no anchoring zone soon became smothered in blanket weed and devoid of seahorses , the zone buoys then moved around so the experiment could be excluded.
It is my opinion the zone was destroyed by the divers who didnt like the results.


creating a no anchoring zone as a precaution could indeed destroy the current environment but it will not stop conservationist trying .

On the east coast English Nature had more money than they knew what to do with, they employed a local who knew the dunes well.

Project 1)
save the natter jack toads

Fence off the natural pond, stop foxes,deer,dogs from getting into the pond.

result the pond filled up, weeded over became a small bog.
put plastic boxes filled with water and keep the natter jacks captive.

strangely the toads didnt really like it so on to plan B

dig a new pond out 3 miles away and move all the toads.
didnt do very well so go onto private land, privately owned ponds looking for any toad burrows, dig them out, catch them and put them in the new pond to increase numbers.

Now the original colony is completely destroyed by accident , no natter jacks ever seen for years.


Project 2

Protect the seals

Erect a fence between the sand dunes (nesting area/birth area/nursery area) and the beach where the seals are.

seals cant get to the sand dunes and have to give birth on the beach.
Great for two years, numbers increase.
But then we have a high tide and all the early first borne pups get drowned as they cant reach the protection of higher sand dunes.

English Nature blame it on a natural accident and dont move the fence.


The Natter jack toads and seals have been doing fine for thousands of years on their own until English Nature got involved but even after mass slaughters and cleansing of huge areas they are encouraged to continue with no one to answer to.

Project 3
plant natural sand dunes with bushes and orchids

destroy the skylark nesting grounds and accidentally decimate skylark population
buy acres of farm land to turn it into a bog/grassland area as the Skylarks arent doing well

None of the accidents have been deliberate , all actions have been made with good intentions but all demonstrate that nature needs to be left alone until there is actual proof that action is needed.











Apologies to 'JW' if you ever read this but if you truly believe in conservation you need to realize your mistakes and learn from them (please remove the fence, what on Earth is going through your mind leaving it there.)

 

[KristiferColumbus]

How much is all this costing the nation? What about austerity?

lol

 

[rbcoomer]

How much is all this costing the nation? What about austerity?

Sadly, they'll probably figure a new 'marine tax' of some description to satisfy that one...

Trends of recent years seem to indicate that more and more services are being charged for outside of what was once the rates and taxes that covered such things. Sadly the central pot from which such things used to be funded still continues to grow even though many of the services once funded are being removed.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

It is claimed the anchor ploughs do not help however above the eel grass in areas of low or no anchoring is extensive blanket weed, eel grass can not establish itself under the blanket weed.
Its apparent that anchor chains clear the blanket weed very quickly and keep it clear for the season.

Thats why it is important that boats maintain their normal anchoring habits in STudland with the exception to any restricted areas under study.

In my opinion (after diving to look) the experimental no anchoring zone soon became smothered in blanket weed and devoid of seahorses , the zone buoys then moved around so the experiment could be excluded.
It is my opinion the zone was destroyed by the divers who didnt like the results.


creating a no anchoring zone as a precaution could indeed destroy the current environment but it will not stop conservationist trying .

On the east coast English Nature had more money than they knew what to do with, they employed a local who knew the dunes well.

Project 1)
save the natter jack toads

Fence off the natural pond, stop foxes,deer,dogs from getting into the pond.

result the pond filled up, weeded over became a small bog.
put plastic boxes filled with water and keep the natter jacks captive.

strangely the toads didnt really like it so on to plan B

dig a new pond out 3 miles away and move all the toads.
didnt do very well so go onto private land, privately owned ponds looking for any toad burrows, dig them out, catch them and put them in the new pond to increase numbers.

Now the original colony is completely destroyed by accident , no natter jacks ever seen for years.


Project 2

Protect the seals

Erect a fence between the sand dunes (nesting area/birth area/nursery area) and the beach where the seals are.

seals cant get to the sand dunes and have to give birth on the beach.
Great for two years, numbers increase.
But then we have a high tide and all the early first borne pups get drowned as they cant reach the protection of higher sand dunes.

English Nature blame it on a natural accident and dont move the fence.


The Natter jack toads and seals have been doing fine for thousands of years on their own until English Nature got involved but even after mass slaughters and cleansing of huge areas they are encouraged to continue with no one to answer to.

Project 3
plant natural sand dunes with bushes and orchids

destroy the skylark nesting grounds and accidentally decimate skylark population
buy acres of farm land to turn it into a bog/grassland area as the Skylarks arent doing well

None of the accidents have been deliberate , all actions have been made with good intentions but all demonstrate that nature needs to be left alone until there is actual proof that action is needed.











Apologies to 'JW' if you ever read this but if you truly believe in conservation you need to realize your mistakes and learn from them (please remove the fence, what on Earth is going through your mind leaving it there.)

Exactly mirrors my experience of "conservationists."
Listening to the report on BBC Radio Solent this morning about the marine conservations zones & an 'experts' opinion of why they are needed the piece meal approach of the whole exercise immediately struck me.It deals with ecology in isolation & the setting up of little sanctuaries mainly benefits conservationists along the lines of DAKA's posting.
Hopefully this nonsense can be stopped by Parliament & the real problem of over population tackled (but I won't be holding my breath on that one).
Checkout "HOME" on Youtube for an interesting perspective on all this.
We are just applying a window dressing

 

[oldharry]

Exactly mirrors my experience of "conservationists."
Listening to the report on BBC Radio Solent this morning about the marine conservations zones & an 'experts' opinion of why they are needed the piece meal approach of the whole exercise immediately struck me.It deals with ecology in isolation & the setting up of little sanctuaries mainly benefits conservationists along the lines of DAKA's posting.
Hopefully this nonsense can be stopped by Parliament & the real problem of over population tackled (but I won't be holding my breath on that one).
Checkout "HOME" on Youtube for an interesting perspective on all this.
We are just applying a window dressing

I think a lot of us would agree with this, KC, but there are various snags: Firstly the Government is committed not only internally, but internationally to 'Management' of the UKs sea areas, whether they need it or not, with some very heavy penalties for failure to produce the goods. As I said earlier, the penalties for dropping the scheme would cost significantly more than seeing it through. Secondly, the conservation lobby is extremely powerful, and the implications for politicians opposing it and the whole 'green'/ GW/ Windfarm thing are pretty serious, putting any opponent at a pretty big disadvantage even before starting. Basically conservationists at poresent hold the whip hand. I am afraid I dont see anyone in parliament even attempting to stick his/her neck out on this one - theres too much political capital at stake.

The only real hope for downsizing this is the huge cost of it. MMO tasked with conservation and enforcement is having its budget seriously cut year on year, so one wonders how any serious enforcement can take place.


.

 

[ARCO7]

The Power Of Conservation

The Conservationists may well think they are POWERFUL and MUST be OBEYED but in these lean times there are far more important issues to spend public funds on .
There are a few MPs that thought they were ALL POWERFUL until the expenses scandal broke and then they didn't seem to have much clout anymore ,infact some lost their jobs and some even went to prison.
Conservationists need to be ultra squeekie clean if they are to stand any chance of getting public and government support.
Now if you look into the yearly accounts of some local Conservation trusts on the website of the Charity Commision you might be shocked by how much money they have coming in , its not thousands but millions in some cases.
All claim to be non-profit making , which you would expect from a wildlife charity. However I saw a job advertised for a Local Wildlife Trusts full time GRAPHIC DESIGNER last year and the salary was 28,000 pounds plus benefits .
So you've got to wonder how much the rest of the staff are earning considering they rely on charitable donations ,membership fees and handouts from Natural England ?

 

[oldharry]

The Conservationists may well think they are POWERFUL and MUST be OBEYED but in these lean times there are far more important issues to spend public funds on .
There are a few MPs that thought they were ALL POWERFUL until the expenses scandal broke and then they didn't seem to have much clout anymore ,infact some lost their jobs and some even went to prison.
Conservationists need to be ultra squeekie clean if they are to stand any chance of getting public and government support.
Now if you look into the yearly accounts of some local Conservation trusts on the website of the Charity Commision you might be shocked by how much money they have coming in , its not thousands but millions in some cases.
All claim to be non-profit making , which you would expect from a wildlife charity. However I saw a job advertised for a Local Wildlife Trusts full time GRAPHIC DESIGNER last year and the salary was 28,000 pounds plus benefits .
So you've got to wonder how much the rest of the staff are earning considering they rely on charitable donations ,membership fees and handouts from Natural England ?

£ks - £ms coming in, so they pay well in order to not make a profit... er sorry, to ensure they get the best possible staff. Surplus this year? - Ok lets employ an expert to do something... its all hangs together really.

But because of the 'feel good factor' of supporting 'Wild Life', 'Conservation' and such like, politically they do carry a lot of clout, and correspondingly anyone who seeks to oppose them has to be able to put up a very strong case.

But in times of austerity with essential services being cut back the structure may well start wobbling when huge sums of money start going in to something that has no visible return, except an increase in the price of sea food?

 

[ARCO7]

Self conservation societies

Here are some interesting facts and figures I have quickly picked out from the Charity Commissions Website and the Wildlife Trusts website.
My nearest Wildlife Trusts are Hampshire and IOW Wildlife Trust and Dorset Wildlife Trust , who last year took 5.2million and 3.6 million respectfully .
There are a couple of vacancies advertised with various WTs each have a good salary with an 8% employers pension.
This is the best bit ! We've all been stopped by the Wildlife Trust Membership Recruiters outside the local supermarket over the years, well there are vacancies for MR s and the average monthly earnings are quoted as 750 quid for 15 hours work a week ..thats an average of 67 hours per month which is over 10 quid an hour .
Think I might retire early and get recruiting , Do you think they'll have a stand at Soton Boat Show this week ?

 

[oldharry]

,,,and Natural England, the Govts own conservation Body last year had a wages bill alone of £86m. Unsurprisingly they have had substatial cutbacks earlier in the year.

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

(re ARCO7 headline):

"Self conservation Society" Wasn't that the song from the Italian Job about a bunch of crooks who helped themselves to European fund-..............ah, I see, sorry, yeah, right with you there, sorry, my mistake.

 

[Boathook]

Here are some interesting facts and figures I have quickly picked out from the Charity Commissions Website and the Wildlife Trusts website.
My nearest Wildlife Trusts are Hampshire and IOW Wildlife Trust and Dorset Wildlife Trust , who last year took 5.2million and 3.6 million respectfully .
There are a couple of vacancies advertised with various WTs each have a good salary with an 8% employers pension.
This is the best bit ! We've all been stopped by the Wildlife Trust Membership Recruiters outside the local supermarket over the years, well there are vacancies for MR s and the average monthly earnings are quoted as 750 quid for 15 hours work a week ..thats an average of 67 hours per month which is over 10 quid an hour .
Think I might retire early and get recruiting , Do you think they'll have a stand at Soton Boat Show this week ?

Do they have a job where I can look after Studland and enforce the anchoring rule?

 

[Seajet]

Boathook, I hope you mean to enforce the 'anchoring is fine' rule, in which case me first; I'm sure the job would come with a really spiffing uniform and hat too !

 

[alahol2]

Spiffing uniform, hat and, in these straitened times, a rowboat. Just like the good old days.

 

[Seajet]

Spiffing uniform, hat and, in these straitened times, a rowboat. Just like the good old days.

I don't think you realise how these people think, even with 'austerity measures' more like a few posh Landrovers by beaches and Nelson mobo's or at least imitation Special Boat Forces RIBs.

And the hat will have something like 'Assistant Admiral, Starfleet', and light up by a solar panel on top to prove the operation is 'enviro-friendly'...

 

[Boathook]

Boathook, I hope you mean to enforce the 'anchoring is fine' rule, in which case me first; I'm sure the job would come with a really spiffing uniform and hat too !

Just what I meant and hopefully implied. Anything to protect the seahorses from the divers.

I think that I suggested it first