After listening to that bloke on the radio in the thread I have run I think it's about time we targeted divers.They have certainly got it in for us!
STUDLAND - How much do they want???
- Thread starter SailBobSquarePants
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After listening to that bloke on the radio in the thread I have run I think it's about time we targeted divers.They have certainly got it in for us!
Seajet
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KC,
I have to say 'we' boat owners are not targeting anyone, simply trying to speak sense to anyone who'll listen.
There have been recent incidents where a diver or two has been a remarkably good stand in for the village idiot while he's on his holidays, and the jury is still out as to whether 12 divers at 02:00 were really looking to speargun small Bass rather than grab lucrative Seahorses, but there are a thousand good divers for every bad one.
Also, a fact not often mentioned is that dive boats, including those on BBC programmes use anchors !!!
The focus is now rather on the silting up of Studland Bay, the loss of eelgrass despite many less visiting boats, and just by coincidence the major dredging of the shipping channel...
I have to say 'we' boat owners are not targeting anyone, simply trying to speak sense to anyone who'll listen.
There have been recent incidents where a diver or two has been a remarkably good stand in for the village idiot while he's on his holidays, and the jury is still out as to whether 12 divers at 02:00 were really looking to speargun small Bass rather than grab lucrative Seahorses, but there are a thousand good divers for every bad one.
Also, a fact not often mentioned is that dive boats, including those on BBC programmes use anchors !!!
The focus is now rather on the silting up of Studland Bay, the loss of eelgrass despite many less visiting boats, and just by coincidence the major dredging of the shipping channel...
Sans Bateau
Well-known member
Lets not ignore the fact, if the public consultation comes to a phone in/email in/letter writing exercise, then Packham will be on the BBC rallying support from the naive folks miles away from the coast who think he's some kind of wildlife saviour. If that happens, we're sunk!
They say the best form of defense is attack & it seems to me that divers have been driving the agenda from day one.Would any attention have been given to anchoring & it have been given such a high profile in the marine conservation zone management without the likes of Stephen Trellis & NGM generating publicity for their own concern? & now it seems to have been jumped on by other "conservationists" like that bloke on BBC Radio Solent who just happen to have their own careers to think about
Of course divers use anchors & as we have seen by the activity's of NGM & his cohorts they also are responsible for the degrading of marine environments & the exploitation of it's sea creatures so it is precisely this hypocrisy that we should be concerned about.
AND & I know I keep coming back to this but I am concerned that while Studland seems to grab all the headlines we are ignoring the consequences for other places.
Seajet
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Kristifer,
I know what you mean, but one of our ultimate weapons is the moral high ground; we have not sent threatening e-mails to women as others seem to have, and we don't aim to make a penny out of the debate, quite the opposite as we give up our free time and resources.
It's well worth joining 'Facebook' to see the 'Save Studland Bay' campaign, largely from the locals' point of view.
I agree with Galadriel that we may have to up our game re. publicity if things go that way, but the moment we become aggressive we are just as bad as the nuts out there !
The Studland debate seems to be changing direction as even the career conservationists admit to far fewer visiting boats than claimed, and attention is going towards the major dredging operations ( which the wind turbine farm will not exactly help plus it's other snags ).
BORG are not only concentrating on Studland, we are very concerned about Osbourne Bay, Newtown Creek etc but getting info' from Balanced Seas is like juggling with fog !
I know what you mean, but one of our ultimate weapons is the moral high ground; we have not sent threatening e-mails to women as others seem to have, and we don't aim to make a penny out of the debate, quite the opposite as we give up our free time and resources.
It's well worth joining 'Facebook' to see the 'Save Studland Bay' campaign, largely from the locals' point of view.
I agree with Galadriel that we may have to up our game re. publicity if things go that way, but the moment we become aggressive we are just as bad as the nuts out there !
The Studland debate seems to be changing direction as even the career conservationists admit to far fewer visiting boats than claimed, and attention is going towards the major dredging operations ( which the wind turbine farm will not exactly help plus it's other snags ).
BORG are not only concentrating on Studland, we are very concerned about Osbourne Bay, Newtown Creek etc but getting info' from Balanced Seas is like juggling with fog !
sea urchin
New member
BORG are not only concentrating on Studland, we are very concerned about Osbourne Bay, Newtown Creek etc but getting info' from Balanced Seas is like juggling with fog !
RYA published this on 4th August - dont know if it is the latest from Balanced Seas - or maybe it is old news, however it includes "updates" :- http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/planningenvironment/marineconservation/mcz/Pages/BalancedSeas.aspx
Osborne Bay (dRA 17): Now being considered as a possible Reference Area to protect the seagrass beds, which are considered by Natural England to be the best in the area. The latest Reference Area boundary directly coincides with most of the anchoring area used extensively by the leisure boating community. Update: An alternative Reference Area east of Osborne Bay has been proposed, called Kings Quay, where anchoring restrictions are likely to be recommended. Whether there is a need for any further protection of the seagrass beds for the whole shore line from Osborne Bay – Ryde has not yet been agreed.
Newtown Creek (dRA 19): Heavily protected already, the whole creek is now being considered as a possible Reference Area to protect four habitats and species. Whilst protection of these features might not have any further impact on anchoring restrictions in this area, there is no guarantee that this will be the case. Update: A recommendation to reduce the size of this proposed Reference Area has been put forward by National Trust, which would encompass only the southern section outside the anchoring area and part of the eastern creek.
Seajet
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" Possible " and " under consideration " are what we've been hearing for a long time, believe me Old Harry & Galadriel especially are on top of all the publications; it's just that until Balanced Seas come out with something vaguely concrete we haven't thought it worth reporting, there's a while to go yet.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Just a comment - the area around King's Quay is shallow, accessed by a winding and unmarked creek, is rarely visited by anything bigger than dinghies or day sailers, and there is a nature reserve or SSSI ashore, so restrictions there would certainly have less impact on recreational sailing than Osborne.
Carribean Blue
New member
Are you able to share a list of these publications with us all, as it would be very useful to all boat owners? Or is it the case that only the cognoscenti (ie BORG members) are informed? Should this be the case, do you have to be a Rodney to join?
I have always found the RYA are very good at disseminating reliable information.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
I can't speak for BORG, but the various 'consultative' bodies have copies of relevant documents on their websites. You might like to start with this from Balanced Seas. It is a long download. If you are still awake by the time you have read to the end, similar are available for other parts of the coast.
Carribean Blue
New member
Cheers! Ken. The RYA article posted by Sea Urchin, gives some updates on this. As it was published after the August 2nd/3rd meeting of Balanced Seas Regional Stakeholder Group I guess it could reflect some changes discussed then (as the RYA is represented)? Anyway, many thanks Ken.
If you've got any more up to date info, it would be much appreciated.
If you've got any more up to date info, it would be much appreciated.
Seajet
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Carribean Blue,
you're very welcome but as Twister Ken says, good luck to make it to the end without being cross-eyed, a night short of sleep & none the wiser !
Please PM me if still keen.
Andy
oldharry
Well-known member
The basic problem is, there is no one set of documents, and no one overseeing organisation. Eventually once it is all in place it will be handed to MMO to regulate and enforce, but they have no real part in setting it all up.
Its not BORG cognoscenti keeping people in the dark, its the legislators and conservationists producing reams and reams of reports, explanations, notes and plans. It took me nearly six weeks virtually full time study to get my head round it all last winter. And the fundamental problem all the way down the line is EVERYTHING is still under discussion, so things keep changing. 'Nothing has been decided' is what everyone says, then produces 500 page reports on what they have not decided to do! Six weeks later another 450 page report updates the previous one, and so and so on... so what was true last month, has all been changed this month. What I have tried to do is to keep up with these changes, and ensure that they are passed on as they occur, then pick up your comments, and feed them back in to the process.
Much better to read what Caroline Price at RYA has written up on their website, which gives as good a summary as any and is up to date: http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/planningenvironment/marineconservation/mcz/Pages/BalancedSeas.aspx
If you want more, you need to link to DEFRA, MMO, Natural England, Joint Nature Conservation Council, Science Advisory Panel, and all the back issues of interim reports from Finding Sanctuary, Balanced Seas, Net Gain, and Irish Seas. If your interest is in Studland, you will need to look at Studland Bay Protection Association, Natural England, Dorset Wildlife Trust, Sea Horse Trust, and for a bit of background reading the now Defunct Studland Seagrass Survey Group. There is also Ken Collins Report on Studland Eelgrass and Anchoring Damage. That just about Covers English Coasts: repeat this process on a slightly smaller scale for Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies who each have their own programme running.
But before that you ought to study the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009, mainly Schedule 4, and get your mind round that. UK.GOV has produced reams of 'explanatory notes' on it which will probably leave you even more confused!
For a bit of background reading there is the Treaty on Biodiversity 1992 signed by 34 nations in Rio, followed by a huge volume of European Legislation in the intervening years - homework which I have to admit is still in my 'In Tray' and likely to remain so, unless we need to involve Brussels - by no means impossible, and potential contacts are in place if we need them.
Bear in mind that most of this stuff is in technical jargon, and you have to be able to understand the different techie languages each of the four English groups speak - each has its own 'dialect'.
Actually its a whole lot simpler to read up what Caroline Price, RYA's Environmental Advisor, has written on their website - she knows it all even better than I do!
However, if you want to brief yourself up on all this, then great - the more of us there are around who can talk knowledgeably about this whole issue, the more chance we have of ensuring silly decisions are avoided.
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But that is exactly what I have been concerned about.It is a kind of creeping paralysis.I have used the area by Kings Key inshore for ages & very few other boats use it.Clearly there is no reason to restrict anchoring there but that is'nt stopping them from turning it into their own little private nature reserve.
If the seagrass beds are at their best where there are the most boats I can't see any excuse for any of this.
& PS to Old Harry.I take my hat off to you for having the patience to sort through all that gobbledegook.I hope you are also managing to do some sailing.
I think I will recommend you for a knighthood!
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
But that is exactly what I have been concerned about.It is a kind of creeping paralysis.I have used the area by Kings Key inshore for ages & very few other boats use it.Clearly there is no reason to restrict anchoring there but that is'nt stopping them from turning it into their own little private nature reserve.
It is all about jobs for the boys & private havens for certain people to continue their own little private hobbies & pursue their careers
It stinks & we are all being herded into big fashionable areas like lemmings.
!
Don't disagree. In fact Kings Quay is so infrequently used that it would be unnecessary to put any restrictions there. That's why it makes a good 'swop' for Osbourne Bay.
They're nuts.Most of the area east of Osbourne Bay is very little used & you have to be careful anchoring close in shore by Kings Key & all along there because of rocks,God knows I've hit a few of them!
Kings Key is already a little private nature reserve in effect because I believe the bloke there with the big house owns the land.Osbourne Estate & all that area there are big signs warning of landing so I expect this is just another selfish move by the owners.
While on land access is being opened up for ramblers this marine conservation management thing looks like enabling many to restrict our rights.I can see us all being herded into places like Osbourne Bay!
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PaulJ
Member
I haven't read the whole thread as it just too long so forgive me if somebody else has already suggested the same thing........ Surely a good solution would be to do what the Aussies do in environmentally sensitive areas where coral is likely to get damaged, and lay some moorings. It is a long time since I have been to Studland and on that occasion we were the only boat there...... What is the maximum number of boats likely to dive in there of a stormy Summer weekend?
Seven Spades
Well-known member
There were about 60-80 on Monday morning.
Tranona
Well-known member
It is not necessarily the number of boats at any one time - which can be as many as 300 on a rare calm, sunny weekend as the number of mooring incidents. The bay is used in so many different ways - mooring close in to use the beach or well out as I did last time to wait for the tide. There are likely to be very few in the next couple of days, despite the reasonable weather, simply because the wind is from the east and it will be very uncomfortable. Have just abandoned my plan to stay there overnight tonight for that very reason.
The use of "environmently friendly" fixed visitors moorings is the preferred solution of the SHT, but there are doubts about whether they will be effective in the specific tide and weather conditions of Studland, plus they are very expensive so somebody will need to fund them.
However, the basic claim that the state of the eel grass is significantly damaged by anchoring yachts beyond local damage is not proven, let alone any clear link with the state of health of the seahorse population.
The use of "environmently friendly" fixed visitors moorings is the preferred solution of the SHT, but there are doubts about whether they will be effective in the specific tide and weather conditions of Studland, plus they are very expensive so somebody will need to fund them.
However, the basic claim that the state of the eel grass is significantly damaged by anchoring yachts beyond local damage is not proven, let alone any clear link with the state of health of the seahorse population.
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Seajet
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Tranona has summed it up nicely, the Environmentally Friendly Moorings are very expensive, especially to install, have a very large question mark over their adequacy in this location, and insurance cover seems remarkably unlikely.
One thing which has come to light is that the SHT's claim of 300 boats a time is nonsense; locals are keeping a careful daily check, it's been the case this year so far that 70 boats is a very busy day, I think the 100 barrier has been just broken once.
There's also the fact that diving has increased massively, a lot of people consider it no coincidence that seahorse sightings have been almost non-existent this season; Packham and the BBC have done the little beasties nothing but harm.
One thing which has come to light is that the SHT's claim of 300 boats a time is nonsense; locals are keeping a careful daily check, it's been the case this year so far that 70 boats is a very busy day, I think the 100 barrier has been just broken once.
There's also the fact that diving has increased massively, a lot of people consider it no coincidence that seahorse sightings have been almost non-existent this season; Packham and the BBC have done the little beasties nothing but harm.
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