Strewth ---- that a beautiful boat

[jfm]

fline/princess same ownership

They dont behave as if common ownership though. AFAIK they do not share much resource. I asked a director if they buy materials together frexample and got a wooly answer but got the impression they dont much. There is one common director and the MD of both are paid precisely the same salary (170 incl pension last year)

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[Dave_Snelson]

So...is the time imminent?? Is the money burning a hole in your pocket??

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[tcm]

Re: fline/princess same ownership

afaik, there's no commonality whatsoever. No shared anything, and they even compete for the same customers on several models. If there WAS common somethingorother, it wd be known and trumpted long and loud. Or hushed up badly. Or be obvious (as group invoicing eg sales of one 80mil, sales of other 80 mill but total group wd only be 150mil cos of plywood flogging betweenem)

Econmies of scale of co-operation may simply not be relisable for as long as they stay fauily manual.

Interesting that neither MD has had the wit, ability, determination, performance (or combination) to win more loot that t'other. Is this an indication of reaching limit of ability and keeping head down?

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[petem]

Re: new model rant

Agree, more new models ultimately means more expensive boats. However (I think) moulds have a limited life (100 mouldings?) so it makes sense to launch a new model than make new moulds.

Not sure I agree ref the T48. You might not be keen on the T52 but the T48 would be looking a bit dated by now (as does T34).

Pete

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.FairlineOwnersClub.com>Fairline Owners Club</A>

 

[jfm]

Re: new model rant

Pete, even if moulds have limited life (and I cant see why) it's dirt cheap to make a new copy, so that wouldn't be a factor in anything

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[petem]

Re: new model rant

Yeah but it's not a single mould, it's loads of moulds for all the different bits. I don't know why they have a limited life, anyone know?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.FairlineOwnersClub.com>Fairline Owners Club</A>

 

[jfm]

Re: new model rant

I dont think they have limited life. They get bashed as the boat is released, but filled and repaired (as happens with the hulls on our boats sometimes)

Even if there are loads of moulds it's cheap as chips to make a full replacement set. Much cheaper than making even 1 boat

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[longjohnsilver]

15 pairs of shoes!!!

You tart!!

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: new model rant

About 7yrs is the average life span of car models with a mid term facelift after 4yrs so I dont think you can accuse Fairline or Princess of excessive model changes although, I think if I were a Sunseeker owner, I'd be a bit pissed off with their constant changes
You cant blame boat builders for trying to stimulate sales by introducing new models every few years. The T48 had a 7yr run and a change was due to take advantage of newer engine types but I agree with you in that the T52 is not much better and nowhere near as good value and by introducing the T47 as a 2 cabin boat, they've shot themselves in the foot as the unique selling point of the T48 was having 3 cabins in a sub 15m boat

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[tcm]

new model t48 rant

okay, since we've landed on a t48 (cos Deleted User and i had one, and jfm beeen onit and petem seenem too)....

The main hull is fine innit? Thats the same same same. Well, it's the same since 1997, really, at least. okay, praps new portholes, but not very very completely different? And the fwd cabin - that was fairly fine too, unles you like weird sinks made of glass in the ensuites. But if you do, then have the new sinks. Tho at least the t48 had a bigger master suite, as i sed before - in other words, they "blanks sheet of paper"3 designed that t52, and the result was that the new model wasn't better in all respects - it was different, and introduced new faults to cure.

The dash could be totally redone of course, new engines no prob, the glass side windows sharpened up, do some hardtop thing if you must. New topside moulding, whatever.

Point is, the blimmin boat form itself isn't new at all , in a new boat. It's pointy, and 48 feet long. it's not an improvement to make a lobnger boat to replace a shorter one - it's like introducing a truck to replace a big car.

Whatever else they do, they pretty much need a boat that long, just short of the ooer 50 foot limit for uk waters, three-bed cottage size. The car analogy doesn't hold. With boats, the hull form itself could have a lot more longevity than a car shell. And it could be used across more than one model - couldn't it? yerknow, flybridge and sports crusier. But- oh no! Each new model needs a new hull design, apparently. With more flowing er summink about water that's recently been invented? Not likely.

Boat models should be in sensible stepped limits, imho,. Those limits are easy to find out from the preponderance of berth sizes. So, for the med, the beam sizes should be just under 4m, 5 metres 6 metres beam (say) and for length - choose some sizes as well. That's how big boats need to be.

Only reason to change the sizes is if the berth sizes change. But they don't. Well, not often. Okay, make biger boats at the top end, dump the smaller models, sut that mida range would be sorted, wouldn't it?

THEN, see, instead of each new model being utterly and totally new, it could evolve and get better. Like, if you get a new merc (or beemer) they know what works best on the dash. Sure, new technology comes in, but it doesn't negate all the good ideas from before. And with boats, the pilot seats (for example) could be pretty much sorted by now, lots of driving seats, all fitting standard size people. Not different seat for ewch new model, some with nice sit stand, then others with something else.

AND - design faults would gradually disappear, Cos they would just know how to install things without them falling off. Insteadof which each new model goes thru the same teething troubles as a nearly-the-same boat size model did ten years ago, - easy to solve problems involving self-tapping screws, i mean. New tech with flat screens, of course all to be introduced as and when possible.


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[tcm]

Re: new model rant

You're mising the point. Boats aren't like cars in this respect. Boats are mechanically far more simple, partly cos they're so much bigger. New technology could be introduced in a plastic pointy hull without having to start from scratch. Y0ou can call them a "new model". But their essential form is predetermined, underwater, pointy. Their non-essential form can be changed very cheapy, with new mouldings. Their mechanicals are bought-in engines. For complex systems and machinery, design doesn't start with a blank sheet of paper, or at least - it shouldn't. It should surely be an ongoing process, improving the bits that need improving, keeping the bits that work.

But periodic chucking the whole lot in the bin and having the new model spec as " five or six feet longer" means that (new) basic production problems again have to be worked through for several years, and then just as the product becomes profitable (which is not a common thing in the boating industry) - they stop making it and start the whole nightmare yet again.



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[Magnum]

Re: new model rant

You're over simplifying things. Boats are not just pointy things of a given length with things in, the hulls have a shape and layout of their own.

For example, compare the P65 to the P67 - both are pointy things approximately 67ft long, but the P67 is beamier, taller and heavier. It also has a full-beam stateroom, bigger flybridge, crane with tender storage, underwater exhausts etc.

Not all of these things can be achieved by using the same hull.

In any case I'm sure the actual hull cost is not the lions share of the total cost. So if you are updating/improving internally, why not do the hull too?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.magnumyacht.net>http://www.magnumyacht.net</A> - Princess P42

 

[ArthurWood]

Are they ISO 900x certified?

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