Steel boats what advantages ?

[SailingNewYorkCity]

That's strange- the only time I have heard of monel is as seizing wire- I always assumed it was electrolytically quite safe as it is used on mooring shackles.

Perhaps it is insulated in some way. Another possibility is that there have been advancements in metallurgy which have solved the issue. I wish I knew more about it. I do know it is used in some specialized fittings but I was under the impression that they were insulated from other metals in some way.

 

[PCUK]

The raw material cost of the hull is only a tiny part of the finished boat price. When you add in the blasting, painting, and insulation costs, a steel vessel with a 'yacht finish' and long life expectancy will cost far more than a production GRP boat.
Absolute rubbish!!! sorry no other way to express this!

All the usual nonsense about corrosion. If the boat is properly epoxy coated inside and out from new then corrosion is not an issue. As so many forumites are in love with GRP products churned out on factory production lines it is difficult to get an informed view of unique custom designed and built steel vessels,

 

[SailingNewYorkCity]

The raw material cost of the hull is only a tiny part of the finished boat price. When you add in the blasting, painting, and insulation costs, a steel vessel with a 'yacht finish' and long life expectancy will cost far more than a production GRP boat.
Absolute rubbish!!! sorry no other way to express this!

All the usual nonsense about corrosion. If the boat is properly epoxy coated inside and out from new then corrosion is not an issue. As so many forumites are in love with GRP products churned out on factory production lines it is difficult to get an informed view of unique custom designed and built steel vessels,

I was wondering about coatings. In the automotive world there has been amazing progress with durable finishes (both factory and aftermarket). What sort of lifespan does one see with these coatings on steel boats? Naturally there will be variations based upon the coating, usage, environment, boat design, etc. but are you able to provide some sort of guide?

 

[CelebrityScandel]

I was wondering about coatings. In the automotive world there has been amazing progress with durable finishes (both factory and aftermarket). What sort of lifespan does one see with these coatings on steel boats? Naturally there will be variations based upon the coating, usage, environment, boat design, etc. but are you able to provide some sort of guide?

One of our past boats was steel. It was built in 1996 and while we sold it many years ago to move to a bigger boat I keep in contact with the current owner and see the boat from time to time.

It still has the original coatings on it, that is it has never been repainted, and still looks better than many boats. The coatings were epoxy primer and undercoats, it was fully faired all over, and top coats were polyurethane. Overall though, it was a very carefully specified boat and was built by a very good builder. The coatings were all applied correctly and under controlled conditions. The boat has never had a rust problem and the interior bilges are as fresh as the day the boat was built.

There has been some comment regarding the cost to build. For a yacht quality finish, so not something out of someone's backyard, a professional custom built yacht in steel will cost as much as a custom built one in other materials. It is an illusion that they are cheap to build if a yacht finish is wanted. In comparison to a production frp boat the yacht quality steel boat will be much more expensive. I can quantify that in that the steel boat, albeit with good gear on it, cost more to build back in 1996 as a production frp yacht of the same size can be purchased for today.

When comparing build cost with a custom built yacht quality boat of another material, while the bare hull material is cheaper, as is the labour in the bare hulls construction, the extra costs come from the coatings, the fairing (an enormous labour cost even with a fair steel construction in the first place), the insulation and significantly higher joinery and lining costs. The latter for reasons such as lockers having to be lined out (frp or timber/frp composite construction lining is not necessary for a yacht quality finish) and interior linings and joinery able to be removed where feasible in case of need for interior hull coating inspection or repair. The labour hours that went into the boat were the same as for a timber/frp composite boat of the same size out of the same builder's yard.

Now, it is possible to build a boat much cheaper if the labour cost is free and/or it is not built to yacht quality but that leads to all the problems many claim as to high maintenance costs, rough looking and poorly fitted out boat. Also, if the labour is free then any saving is only in the steel compared to another hull construction material.

That boat was enormously strong and not particularly heavy, so we never worried about hitting containers, etc. It was also surprisingly fast, especially in anything of a sea state. Our current boat is aluminium, as are the vast majority of its size, and for a custom built boat is probably, these days, the best material as long as one can put aside romantic attachments to the alternatives. The vast majority of small commercial vessels are now aluminium.

 

[SailingNewYorkCity]

One of our past boats was steel. It was built in 1996 and while we sold it many years ago to move to a bigger boat I keep in contact with the current owner and see the boat from time to time.

It still has the original coatings on it, that is it has never been repainted, and still looks better than many boats. The coatings were epoxy primer and undercoats, it was fully faired all over, and top coats were polyurethane. Overall though, it was a very carefully specified boat and was built by a very good builder. The coatings were all applied correctly and under controlled conditions. The boat has never had a rust problem and the interior bilges are as fresh as the day the boat was built.

There has been some comment regarding the cost to build. For a yacht quality finish, so not something out of someone's backyard, a professional custom built yacht in steel will cost as much as a custom built one in other materials. It is an illusion that they are cheap to build if a yacht finish is wanted. In comparison to a production frp boat the yacht quality steel boat will be much more expensive. I can quantify that in that the steel boat, albeit with good gear on it, cost more to build back in 1996 as a production frp yacht of the same size can be purchased for today.

When comparing build cost with a custom built yacht quality boat of another material, while the bare hull material is cheaper, as is the labour in the bare hulls construction, the extra costs come from the coatings, the fairing (an enormous labour cost even with a fair steel construction in the first place), the insulation and significantly higher joinery and lining costs. The latter for reasons such as lockers having to be lined out (frp or timber/frp composite construction lining is not necessary for a yacht quality finish) and interior linings and joinery able to be removed where feasible in case of need for interior hull coating inspection or repair. The labour hours that went into the boat were the same as for a timber/frp composite boat of the same size out of the same builder's yard.

Now, it is possible to build a boat much cheaper if the labour cost is free and/or it is not built to yacht quality but that leads to all the problems many claim as to high maintenance costs, rough looking and poorly fitted out boat. Also, if the labour is free then any saving is only in the steel compared to another hull construction material.

That boat was enormously strong and not particularly heavy, so we never worried about hitting containers, etc. It was also surprisingly fast, especially in anything of a sea state. Our current boat is aluminium, as are the vast majority of its size, and for a custom built boat is probably, these days, the best material as long as one can put aside romantic attachments to the alternatives. The vast majority of small commercial vessels are now aluminium.

Thank you for the well thought out answer. It makes sense. The cheapest isn't always the least expensive. When racing cars we used to say "Buy quality, cry once. Buy cheap, cry often." The same holds true in many things. Thanks again for your answer.

 

[alant]

Thank you for the well thought out answer. It makes sense. The cheapest isn't always the least expensive. When racing cars we used to say "Buy quality, cry once. Buy cheap, cry often." The same holds true in many things. Thanks again for your answer.

Tell the MoD that!

 

[epervier]

Tell the MoD that!

That's being harsh, as tax payers we seem to pay top dollar for our MOD goods but get second rate equipment, someone signs the contract, case in point, a pair of aircraft carriers,to cancel the order was going to be more expensive than have them built, WhoTF signed that purchase order?

Oh I forgot, it's taxpayers money, so it doesn't count.

 

[alant]

That's being harsh, as tax payers we seem to pay top dollar for our MOD goods but get second rate equipment, someone signs the contract, case in point, a pair of aircraft carriers,to cancel the order was going to be more expensive than have them built, WhoTF signed that purchase order?

Oh I forgot, it's taxpayers money, so it doesn't count.

Pay top dollar, but not always top quality goods.

 

[SailingNewYorkCity]

Tell the MoD that!

LOL. Good morning from the colonies. I was in the Army for many years. When I was enlisted all was good (so I thought). It was after my first company company command that I started to wake up. In particular, as a staff officer at higher echelons I began to see how things work. I must say that at times the military does buy some great stuff but unfortunately things have changed. Now people who approve things are concerned about getting jobs with the very companies who they buy from while in the service. Things are more political and no one wants to rock the boat. I could go on but there's really no point given the nature of this thread. If anyone is interested please feel free to contact me directly at ArmyDaveNY@Yahoo.com.

On a side note (or perhaps more accurately, back to the original discussion), back in the eighties, we ended up buying a number of items that the MOD (Great Britain) used. The most famous was the Wolly Pully sweater. Eventuall they were made in the U.S. which was a mistake. Those in the know stuck with the ones made in the in Great Britian since they were better by far. Eventually the official supply ran out then we had to have them imported privately so the price went up. Back to buy quality cry once; buy cheap cry often. There was a difference and it was worth the small extra amount.

 

[Sailfree]

I always thought steel for world cruising but was put off in Carteret a few years back. We were looking at a newly painted steel sailing boat. I noticed slight discolouration and thought it was rust. Ahh not prepared to Swedish Standard 2.5 I thought and poked it with my finger. To my utter surprise my finger disappeared right through the hull!!

We retreated quickly very embarrassed but I later thought maybe we had done someone a favour as surely in preparing the hull and painting it someone would have known how badly rusted it was.

 

[CreakyDecks]

I remember seeing a picture on someone's blog in which a local lad in some far flung corner of the earth was patching a steel hull for the owner on a beach using what looked like a few car batteries, a proper "A" team job! I can't see him doing that with aluminium and I doubt if he had an AC TIG welder in his hut.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Steel is the material of choice for use in the Polar regions; it resists the continual abrasion of ice better than GRP does. Wood is also OK, as it can readily be protected with a sacrificial layer at the waterline.

I don't mean ice-breaking; no yacht would be strong enough for that. But the water always contains loose lumps of ice (brash and bergy bits) which are difficult to see and in any case often too dense to steer round.

 

[binch]

Steel to survive.

When Fare Well was surprised by Hurricane Alberto in the Gulf Stream, she was rolled over, and struck by lightning. Read about it in Heavy Weather Sailing.
I seriously believe any boat other than a quarter inch steel boat, built with close stringers rather than ribs, would have survived. The US Coastguard told us that no ther boat known to be at sea survived.
The second great advantage of steel is that it is the only construction material that Greek goats do not eat.

 

[KellysEye]

We bought a steel boat for long distance cruising. If you sail long enough someone will hit you or you will hit something, we got hit twice with little damage.

We saw a steel boat in the Canaries that had been hit by the bow bulb of a ship in ballast. It was dismasted and had a huge round dent about three feet deep in the side. No hole but it didn't do the furniture inside much good.

>Super thick aluminium.

The whole point of an aluminiun (versus steel) is to keep the boat light. If you want heavy displacement then steel is the way to go. Welding Aluminium is harder to do than steel but easy for a specialist. We had some welding done in Trinidad and after he finished our our he worked on an alumumium boat.

 

[prv]

Do people cruising long-distance in steel boats typically carry welding gear? No particular reason to ask, just curious.

Pete

 

[jerrytug]

Out of interest,speaking as a welder,an invertor arc welder costing £250 new and a 1kw suitcase generator could easily be stored on any long range yacht. Add a grinder and you are as self sufficient in hull repairs as Captain Cook.Not so with alu though. Cheers Jerry.
And your hammer of choice of course!

 

[TQA]

Do people cruising long-distance in steel boats typically carry welding gear? No particular reason to ask, just curious.

Pete

I didn't.

It is hard to think of a place outside Micronesia where you could not find a stick welder.

 

[prv]

It is hard to think of a place outside Micronesia where you could not find a stick welder.

Sure, but I was thinking that for smaller jobs it could well be easier to drag your own welder out of the focsle and crack on, rather than hunting around the docks trying to find a pro and ferrying him out to the boat.

I suppose ideally welding work is not something you'd need all that often.

Pete

 

[TQA]

Sure, but I was thinking that for smaller jobs it could well be easier to drag your own welder out of the focsle and crack on, rather than hunting around the docks trying to find a pro and ferrying him out to the boat.


Pete

You would need a pretty healthy generator as well. Something on the llines of 8 to 10 kva. Your Honda 2eu will not cut it.

 

[jerrytug]

Yes it will 1.5kw is fine.Welding machines are now the size of a loaf of bread and easily run off a small generator. Stick for £200+,you can buy a MIG the size of a box of cornflakes for £500.Wonders of invertor technology!