Steel boat as a long-term liveaboard (in a warm(er) climate).

[SlowlyButSurely]

Hey Mr Swain, it's a shame the firefighters aboard the USS Miami didnt think to take your advice, after all a nuclear submarine has airtight compartments, is built from the highest grade materials available, not grp or plywood. It still ended up scrap.

Hey Mr Clown, I would have thought that the firefighters that dealt with the USS Miami fire would have followed Brent's advice as I believe it is standard practice to contain the fire in one compartment, which they did. Do you have knowledge of the incident or is your post frivolous?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Hey Mr Clown, I would have thought that the firefighters that dealt with the USS Miami fire would have followed Brent's advice as I believe it is standard practice to contain the fire in one compartment, which they did. Do you have knowledge of the incident or is your post frivolous?

I can’t speak for the US Navy but the standard practice for firefighting any outbreak of fire in a ship in the Royal Navy is continuous aggressive attack (if possible) and only to close the compartment down if beaten back. You then need to monitor the temperature of the bulkheads and deck head and deck surrounding the closed down area and boundary cool to stop the fire spreading through heat transfer through the steel bulkheads etc to surrounding inflammable material.

I left the RN three years ago, but one of my friends (and ex colleague) who teaches and examines in the unit that trains ships in damage control and firefighting etc is a regular on these forums. He called in to have coffee only last week. No doubt he can correct my description of procedures if necessary.

We trained using mock ups of sections of ships (about the size of a medium to moderate yacht) putting out real fires.

Brent will be along in a moment to tell us how easy it was.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Yes, that's my understanding of fighting fires aboard ships. Put it out if possible, if not possible contain it in one compartment.

Why so much animosity to a fellow sailor?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

...... Why so much animosity to a fellow sailor?

It's a British thing, we like our eccentric's to be British, other nationalities are just mad and thus to be treated as such. We also detest success stories. Brent Swain is a non-British eccentric who successfully sails a steel yacht all year round with only 2 hours maintenance a year. He didn't stand a chance when he wandered into a British Sailing Forum.

 

[solent clown]

Hey Mr Clown, I would have thought that the firefighters that dealt with the USS Miami fire would have followed Brent's advice as I believe it is standard practice to contain the fire in one compartment, which they did. Do you have knowledge of the incident or is your post frivolous?

The post was frivolous yes. Well spotted. As for knowing any more about that particular fire, I only read a few reports a time back, nothing you could not find online.
However in my former life given the opportunity I would have taken a greater interest.

 

[solent clown]

As for Mr Swain, he is of course an honorary Englishman, as he is as eccentric as required. Autodidacts like Mr Swain are a valuable resource - you have to sort the wheat from the chaff with what he says - and I think he is big enough and ugly enough to take it on the chin when people try to correct him. If he chooses to take no notice that's OK. If you ever come over here Mr Swain, give me a shout, I will take you out for a beer, and give your steel addiction a hit down at our workshops.

 

[coenvanwyk]

Hi Shaws,

Yes, I am on the Vaal. A t least until I have found out if she will float (Next two weeks I hope) then which side goes forward (March I hope) and next year I am off around the globe!

I have heardof a few steel boats built here and then sailed away, some to the UK, some further. There was a Dekker chap in the Cape, I believe, who chartered a self-built steel boat in the Carribbean for a while.

I liked your pics, but the electrics panel gives me a headache just looking at it!

 

[john_morris_uk]

Yes, that's my understanding of fighting fires aboard ships. Put it out if possible, if not possible contain it in one compartment.

Why so much animosity to a fellow sailor?

No real animosity. (It’s not in my nature.)

You need to read the rest of the thread to understand my attempted sarcasm.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Where do you plan to launch you boat at the coast. If its Durban or Richards Bay let me know as I am in either place quite often.

 

[coenvanwyk]

Launch date is March, but I am not teling wwhich year

I hope to do the sail trails this March, and spend a year sailing on Vaal dam to get to know her. So possible launch in the briney next March?

Thanks for the interest, I will keep you posted.

 

[DownWest]

Since this thread has drifted a 'bit'. I was reminded of the WBF comment about 'when will you launch it?' The aswer was Tuesday. "So, which Tuesday?" " The Tuesday after I finish it "

Made me grinn.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Launch date is March, but I am not teling wwhich year

I hope to do the sail trails this March, and spend a year sailing on Vaal dam to get to know her. So possible launch in the briney next March?

Thanks for the interest, I will keep you posted.

Set a date and do not allow any movement otherwise it wont happen.

When I was coming close to finishing mine I booked the crane and truck so had to keep to it.

 

[Brent Swain]

If you wait until your are ready, you will never go.
This life is not a rehearsal .Screw it up, and you don't get to do a rerun. You only get one shot at it!
Some of my most enjoyable building memories are sitting in a nice warm lagoon, finishing my interior, and going swimming whenever the urge hit me . Sure beats doing it on land, in a yard .

Nice lifelines!

 

[Brent Swain]

Hey Mr Clown, I would have thought that the firefighters that dealt with the USS Miami fire would have followed Brent's advice as I believe it is standard practice to contain the fire in one compartment, which they did. Do you have knowledge of the incident or is your post frivolous?

And here I thought personal insults were not allowed here. So much for that misconception!
Definition :
The proper way.. "What works , What did work"
The wrong way. "What doesn't work. What hasn't worked."
What I did worked, and the fire went out quickly. Must have been the proper way. Fighting the fire with hatches open has been a miserable failure, for any one I know who has tried that . I guess that makes it the wrong way, unless you consider a boat gutted by fire a greater success than one with minimal damage. I don't think many would agree with that definition of "success."
Suggesting that a submarine has the same amount of air inside to support combustion, as a31 ft sloop, is abysmally naive.

 

[Robin]

 

[Brent Swain]

Seeing as you are back, Brent, would you maybe consider my question to you:
You say that steel is cheap and the boats it produces are no slower than the alternatives. In fact I don't think you have suggested any particular downsides to steel as a boat building material.
So, why don't Bavaria et al build in steel?

Because plastic builders get the benefits of over a half century of free ( to them) promotion of plastic, and the added support of mobs of trolls, who attack any suggestion of ANY advantage of steel ( to defend the credibility of their own plastic choices). They also get the benefits of steel boaters insisting their outdated, slow, tedious, distorted, labour intensive, 1950's building methods, are the only option for steel boat building ( again, to defend their own choices) attacking anyone who suggests alternative ways of building a metal boat.
META of France has done OK building metal boats, over many decades, using origami methods in their "Strongall" designs, saving huge amounts in labour costs.
As Harry Trueman said:
"An expert is someone who opposes change, because if change is accepted, then he stops being an expert."
When someone who has done things one way ,and is considered an "expert" , sees someone come along with something new, which makes all he has learned redundant, he naturally attacks it, to defend his position as an "Expert."
Plastic Bavarias are definitely better than steel, for what 95% of them are used for, sitting in a marina ,rarely going out, while their owners go to work to pay for them.

 

[Robin]

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:
g'night.

[h=2]This message is hidden because Brent Swain is on your ignore list. [/h] don't wake me up hammering tin


​

 

[Brent Swain]

So, Brent old chap-who is misleading purchasers?

I can tell, by your demeanour and posts on here that you will NEVER buy a new boat in any material.

There are none that would meet your exacting standards.

A little anecdote, many years ago, a very dear friend was holding forth on what was wrong with Japanese motorcycles.

Poor weather protection, complicated engines precluding home repair, no covers on the front and rear suspension components and lots of other stuff.

Among his audience was the Technical Manager of one of the big four Japanese manufacturers plus the Sales Manager of another.

He was asked a simple question " Have you ever purchased, or do you intend to purchase a new motorcycle? "

His answer was an unequivical" No "

" Waste of time listening to you then " came the reply.

A bit like Eddie Cochrans " Summertime Blues " " I'd like to help you son, but you are to young to vote " said the Congressman.

Dont do down boat purchasers, they are not easily misled. I am currently in NZ. Most leisure boats made here are in Aluminium or GRP. And very good they are too.

New Zealand and Finland are slugging it out to have the title of " Most boats owned per capita of population " Both countries have large boat building industries, Finland a Shipbuiling industry. AFAIK no production boat is available from either country in steel.

I wonder why.......................................Perhaps the very high quote to build one of your designs puts them out of reach for mere mortals without your passion for steel boats.

I have sent many plans and books to New Zealand. Many of my boats have cruised there.
I have watched Kiwis in Auckland hand sand 40 footers, so they don't mind doing high maintenance work, for no other reason than to impress the snobs.
My clients would rather go cruising. Auckland boats have the same problem as the yottie crowds here, rarely leaving the marina, due to valueing "yottieness" over freedom and cruising.
You are right, no commercially built boat would meet my standards .That is why some of us build our own.

 

[Brent Swain]

Short piece to get away from the bickering for a moment...

https://www.morganscloud.com/2017/12/29/which-is-the-best-boat-for-offshore-cruising/

[FONT="]because what really matters is what kind of boat works for each of us, [/FONT][/COLOR][B]is safe for our intended purpose[/B][COLOR=#111111][FONT="], and, most importantly, makes us happy. And there are nearly as many different answers to that question as there are cruisers.[[/FONT]/QUOTE]

Yes, I have worked on the first one, Steve and Marilyn's boat . She originally had a flat bar for the bulkwark cap, to bolt wood onto, ( Jeeeze) and wire lifelines, done by Waterline Yachts in Sidney BC. I cut the flat bar off, and replaced it with stainless sch 40 pipe and solid lifelines ( just like my boats).

 

[Brent Swain]

Totally agree. The only reason I reply Is that I get worried that some innocent or newcomer to yachting will take his advice seriously. Some of it is good, but some of it is downright dangerous. Hopefully anyone reading the thread will have realised that (despite his self proclaimed expertise) his is not the gold plated standard of advice on all things boating.

Its a shame as he has some good experiences and advice to share.

I'm sure that in the time of Columbus, some were saying that Columbus should not be allowed to tell people that the world was round . Could be dangerous. Someone might believe him, and end up sailing off the edge .
You are,historicall, in good company.

Many of my clients are extremely experienced. Steve on Silas Crosby has 6 Pacific crossings in his wake, including the last two lengthwise (search Silas Crosby). Winston Bushnell had a circumnavigation in his wake, before building his first brentboat. He has built himself three, and his daughter has built one more . They all recommend my boats to newcomers and old salts.
George Hone sailed one of my boats thru the NW passage before building himself one.
One doesn't sail 9 Pacific crossings and 4 decades of mosty full time cruising, and put together over 3 dozen boats, without having good ideas and advice to share ,often inevitably at odds with those who have far less experience, who claim greater expertise.
Just nice to be able to pass it on, and spare some the steep learning curve I originally had to climb. No sense anyone repeating my mistakes and regrets.