Starting out

[AndrewB]

To my mind Sailbad's advice is sound. Chances are that whatever you buy, you'll want to sell/change within a couple of years, when you've got more experience. Its worth planning with that in mind.

Good luck!

 

[vyv_cox]

Here's my advice.

Firstly, there's a world of difference between a 32 ft and 38 ft boat. It's not just the length, it's the beam, weight, size of kit (sails, anchor, warps, height above the water, etc.) I don't say that the two of you cannot handle the boat, but you will definitely struggle at times.

Second, as others suggest, you all need to get in as much sailing experience as possible before taking delivery. To me, this means dinghy sailing, where you will learn twice as fast as in a cruiser. Not a Laser, that's a toy for you, but a bigger dinghy that carries you all.

Thirdly, you will damage it at times. It's inevitable if you use it in the widest range of sailing activities, including moorings, pontoons, berthing alongside walls, rafting, locks (not sure how many of these there are in Devon) close manoevring, etc. Many of us would suggest that having a second-hand, smaller boat first would let you learn to control and avoid many of these problems without doing expensive damage to yourself and others. I would say buy a boat that has good resale possibilities (Fulmar, Sadler 29, First 29, and many others) first, when you think you've got enough experience, move up. When that will be, I don't know. I don't have enough yet, after 40 years!

 

[rogerroger]

Wasn't saying anything really. It's just that if you thought the Bav 32 is too small - the other 32 footers around the same price (Sun Od 32, Ben 321, Hanse 311 etc) will seem even smaller.

As others have point out - the 4ft length is not really the issue - the whole volume of boat goes up with length so it'll be bigger all over.

Personally - I can't see why parking etc is any harder in a 38 footer or a 32 footer. In many ways the Moody 38 would be easier in a marina as it's not going to be blown all over the place like the light Bav 32. (but I'll bow to the knowledge of my peers on this forum as have never owned such a boat - although chartered several times).

If I was in a position to afford a Moody 38 as my first boat I'd go for it !



Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[pkb]

Steve

Yet another point of view. I am surprised that you are taken with the Moody 38 - huge aft cabin where you only go to sleep and a truncated saloon where you and your family will spend a lot of time. Also small cockpit for such a large boat but that tends to be the case will all centre cockpits.

My advice is to go for an aft cockpit design. You will still end up with a very comfortabler sleeping cabin but bags more saloon space and a wider more comfortable cockpit. The other disadvantage of centre cockpits is that you sit very high, effectively on top of the boat, whereas with an aft cockpit you are "in" the boat and the effect of heeling, which all novices normally dislike, is not so pronounced.

Absolutely do not even think about anything other than GRP boats. There is a lot of romantic nonsense talked about wooden boats. They're great if you don't mind hours of varnishing and puddles of water at your feet. Modern boats from reputable manufacturers such as Moody, Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau are all sound, safe and seaworthy.

As far as size is concerned my wife and I happily handle a 41 footer and in five years of sailing her have never encountered a serious problem we couldn';t handle. Whether I'd want to start off in such a boat is another matter. My advice would be to start out with something like your friend's Bavaria 32. We started out on a Moody 31 - similar sized boat.

Also do not regard your boat as an investment. That's not why you're buying it. Buy any popular make and you'll probably loose money if you sell her within two or three years but popular makes are just that - popular - and there is usually a ready marketplace for them. Also if you, for example buy a Bavaria, and want to trade up to another then px deals are there for the asking.

Sorry to have been long winded and maybe a little opinionated.

At the end of the day do what you want to do - its you who will live with the consequences.

Peter

 

[PhilipStapleton]

I'd just add - plan to do the Day Skipper practical on your own boat - it shortens the learning curve considerably and a good school can probably find you a couple of comp crew candidates to reduce the cost.

I'd endorse the Bav 32 - we've had a Bav 320 for 8 years and never regretted the purchase for a moment. Easy to sail with 2, quite feasible for 1 when you've got a bit more experience.

 

[nicho]

Steve, if you read my posting "am I doing the right thing", you will see that I am in much the same boat as you (or not if you see what I mean). The difference is that I am pretty experienced as a motor cruiser skipper, but don't know too much about sailing, although I have done quite a bit of dinghy sailing some time ago. I can only comment about moving up in size from the motor boat side, and I did find our Sealine S37 felt a whole lot bigger to start with than our previous F33 - size does make a difference!!. in particular, when SWMBO was trying to tie the thing up in a good blow across the pontoon (just realised that could be taken the wrong way, sorry). Nevertheless it took very little time for us to get used to the increased size, and within a week or so everything felt completely normal. The S37 has now gone and we are converting to sail, and I'm really looking forward to it. We started looking at 29 footers, but frankley, as we are now retired and intend spending some considerable time aboard, my 6'1" frame would not fit too well (especially as most cabin headrooms seem to be less than 6' on boats of that size). We have now more or less settled on the new Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 32 (not the original 32.2), which has standing headroom of 6'1" to 6'4", and if you believe the sales patter, sets new standards of interior volume (carries the "widish" beam a long way back evidently). The Show deal is pretty good, with a great deal of gear being thrown in (including wind instruments, colour chart plotter,H&c, Shorepower, additional batteries etc etc). The boat's displacement seems to be on the higher side than usual for these new lightweights. Final decision at the show, but we felt that 32' was plenty big enough for us to handle (but our kids have all gone now to do their own thing). Good luck whatever you finally choose

 

[robp]

After we bought our new boat, things I always regretted not biting the bullet and having fitted, were heating and radar. OK I fitted the radar eventually but a fan heater always seems to win the 1,000 or so Pounds battle since. You do need it in this country, if you want a reasonable season. Plus, if it's delivered in June, you're not going to want to stop in October!!

Good luck and enjoy.

 

[Gerry]

Our first,and current boat, is a 40' Bowman. We have had great fun learning to sail her. Started three years ago taking day skipper and coastal skipper on courses and have had boat around 18 months. Employed our previous teacher to sail with us for first three outings ,up to three weeks, and have not looked back!
Bought our boat second hand from someone who really knew what they were doing.having sailed for 50 years. We realised at the start that we didn't know enough to specify a new boat safely. We feel that we gained a huge amount from the previous owners expertise.
We sail two handed and sometimes with three kids on board. I was seduced to start with at the idea of a large double bed but am glad we went for the more seaworthy arttributes of the Bowman-from the start she has been a boat that looks after us in heavy weather-much more important than a luxurious love nest!!
Have fun! If you can find a really good guru as you learn so much the better it just moves the learning curve along a little faster.
Don't scrimp on the safety features your lives are worth anything that you need to pay in my humble opinion for the peace of mind that comes with the right equipment. Good luck.

 

[Karlvw]

I was in a similar position three years ago. I had sailed but the boss hadn't. We both did a c/crew course to see if she liked it. She enjoyed it so much she forced me to buy a boat. { Says it was my idea } 3 years later we are currently moored on Portugese/Spanish border. We sailed here didn't come by transporter .Whatever you decide I hope you all enjoy it.
ps. Ours is only 30'.

 

[peterb]

It's not just the length, it's also the weight. Generally the weight (also known as the displacement) goes up as the cube of the length. So a 38 is likely to be about 70% heavier than a 32, and that makes it considerably more difficult to handle in a marina. What's more, the freeboard (height of the side) is likely to be greater, making it more difficult to get ashore. I would suggest taking your Day Skipper course, then chartering (even just for a weekend) as many different types of boat as you can.

 

[escape]

Sorry if I repeat some views below but some other issues you should consider;

Although i would suggest you start with a smaller older boat this will add cost as even if the smaller boat is 'perfect' transfare costs (surveys,broker fees etc) come into play.

Do not under estimate the loads on sheets warps etc on a 38' boat (tens of tonnes) so simple things such as turns on winches and cleats can mean the difference between safely controlling a line and damage/injury.

With 2 children you will effectively be single handing for alot of the time (you and SWMBO) so ensure the boat is rigged for this.

Get as much practice on boats the same size or bigger than you buy as this will prepare you better from all sorts of angles eg stepping from deck to pontoon on a 30' or leaping down from a 40'.

You may need thick skin as whilst people tolerate someone learning the ropes in a 25' you may get adverse reactions whilst throwing around 15 tonne of boat close to their pride and joy.Mistakes will be very expensive.

Whatever you do good luck be safe dont shout and have fun!

 

[NigeCh]

Follow your dream

But wouldn't something like a Wayfarer or a Wanderer be a better choice than a Laser to get Angie, James and Emma in the over-wintering groove on those Staffs lakes prior to the delivery of the M38CC?

I reckon that you know more about sailing than you are saying - Why exactly a M38CC and why Torquay? (or was the post just a carefull whisper?)

 

[Guest]

The current model Moody38CC can be sailed from the helm position. Because of the displacement she tends to stay where you put her in a marina and is less skittish than smaller boats. In terms of disembarking alongside Moodys will sell you a nice removeable 2 rung side ladder that makes life even easier than the 336 we had before. It is a different style of driving to an aft cockpit boat but doesn't take long to get to. In terms of the other comment on saloon size I would simply ask have you been on one of the new Moody's?

Pete

 

[Jeremy_W]

Find somewhere that charters the M38CC. Try Alba Sailing in Scotland as they usually have the best new boats in immac condition Then book a skippered charter with a Yacht Master Instructor for the family. After that you'll know if it's right for you. My guess is that it's a lot of yacht for a first buy, but it's your call. At the end of the week you'll either have a Comp Crew Cert and know you're doing the right thing or you'll be doing some serious re-thinking.

You are plainly the A-type/Shaper personality who'll ignore the usual "buy smaller and trade up" stuff, so I won't waste my breath. Good sailing!

 

[blackbird]

How things have changed

So many of us started out in beat up dinghies. Crewed wherever and whenever we could wangle an invitation. Graduated to a leaky little 20 footer with a lid. Gradually moved up to the magnificence of 28 long feet or more (gasp!) and plumbed in heads! There's glory for you!

Not better, not worse, but, oh, so different!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by blackbird on 08/08/2002 09:05 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: How things have changed

You're absolutely right. Many of us learned to sail in boats that could take punishment and didn't give a lot out. If things did go wrong the consequences were not disastrous. We initially learned to sail, first and foremost, then progressed to getting in and out without falling in the water, and ultimately even to sail alongside a small pontoon! If we ran aground we climbed out, waded in the mud and pulled the boat back to the water.

In a cruiser, it's often the other way around. We start off with the difficult stuff, manouevring in close quarters between other expensive boats. We have to motor them off walls and pontoons when the tide and wind are trying their best to prevent us. We have to rely on other people to do things that we would previously have done ourselves, and perhaps we don't tell them what these things are, or don't express ourselves very well. When things go wrong they can do so in a big way and the cost can be high. In close-quarters we are forced into situations that we might have preferred not to be in, like rafts, waiting for bridges or locks with 20 knots of wind behind us, sheltering in small harbours for days in F8-9, and so on ad infinitum.

What I'm trying to say is that the sailing is the easy bit. Once on open water I am confident in my ability to sail in virtually any conditions, largely incident free. In port it's a different matter, and despite many years of doing it, I can confess that the boat bears witness to the fact that I get it wrong from time to time. Nothing more serious than a bent stanchion and some chips and scratches in the topsides and toerails, but my boat is half the weight of a Moody 38, has a lot less windage and a very experienced crew.

 

[jtwebb]

My comment is, have you looked at enough boat types? All are a compromise. Some like centre cockpit, some like aft. Some want tillers, others want a wheel but size dictates which. If a wheel some (me) hate wire and chain systems. Some want basic sail handling, some want lazy jacks, some want in mast furling etc. Some want double beds, some want singles. do you want a holding tank, fridge heater? What nav equipment, instruments etc. Trouble is, you need to live on a boat to find out if it is right! We have followed the usual route of graduating through several boats from dinghies to the current Dehler 36 CWS which is the simplest to handle. Also used to caravan (with dinghies) so experience in layouts gained there.

J Webb

 

[Guest]

Re: How things have changed

I also spent 30 years in dinghy's then to 28 ft cruiser, then a 33.5 ft cruiser, then to the Moody 38 BUT if someone starts slowly, right courses and slowly builds experience then there is no reason why they shouldn't start big. My wife came straight into sailing with the 28ft cruiser and is competant. Another friend bought a 40ft sailing boat as his first ever sailing boat, started sailing with a professional skipper on their boat then sailing in company and today are the other side of the world!!!! We all learn through experience. I would guess that the new Moody 38 CC behaves as well as or if not better in close quarters than your Sadler. (I have sailed sadlers). The real question Steve should be asking is how do I gain the expertise to take the Moody on bigger and bigger trips etc and that has in part been answered here and a number of times before.

Pete

 

[Robin2]

One issue that I have not seen mentioned in these posts is the height of the deck above the marina pontoons. My Cat has a very high freeboard which makes mooring very awkward in my inexperienced hands with only one other crew member. I'm still parking by ear !

On the other hand, once clear of obstacles it is easy to manage with 2 people.

I guess that the height of the deck may increase substantially with a longer boat, or perhaps between different makes.

The guy in the next berth to me has a 30ft fishing boat - his deck is level with the pontoon and he can reach the cleat with his hand while still steering. That makes parking very easy.

I have a lot of scratch marks on my paint - if you go for a new boat be prepared for these.

 

[vyv_cox]

Pontoon height

An important issue, and one that is almost totally ignored by marina owners/builders. No doubt we have all experienced the pontoon fingers that sink when we first stand on them, wobble so much that we can't walk along them, and are so low that we need a ladder to get off the boat. Why should this be? Recently we visited the Stickenhoorn marina at Kiel. The pontoons here were about half a metre higher than those we normally use, and what an incredible difference this makes. We were able to berth easily, step off the boat with no effort, unload the bikes comfortably and safely.

The capital cost involved in increasing the height is surely negligible, but the user-friendliness improvement is vast.

An additional bonus was that instead of a little ring, loop or useless cleat at the finger end, each was equipped with a big vertical post, about 30 cm in diameter and 70 cm high. A really good, cheap fitting. Stickenhoorn marina gets our vote as the best we have ever used, and yet it was probably less expensive than many others, just well thought out.