Southerly 28 (A good starter boat?)

[andyb28]

Good Afternoon All,

I joined the forum today as I need some help about picking my first boat.

I have been learning to sail in a Mirror and am getting the hang of it now. Also have spoken to a local sailing club and will be joining that once they can accept new members (pending covid rules).
For a while now I have been looking at used boats and trying to work out what kind of boat would suit me best. I live near Brightlingsea in Essex and have a number of mooring options.

My plan for sailing will only be exploring local waters and because of that I think a bilge keel or lifting keel will suit me better. But really would like to know if thats correct. These keels also get me onto the cheaper moorings.
I have had many power boats previously, but I have clearly reached an age where sailing appeals to me more.

In my research I found a used 1979 Southerly 28, this seems to me to be a good option for me with the lifting keel and I like the idea of a sheltered controls when they are needed. I have been unuable to find if they are an easy first boat to learn on.
I have been specifically avoiding the faster race style boats, just something easy and forgiving.

Any other suggestions for mud mooring and easy to sail would also be gratefully received. My budget is up to around £10k.
I hope I have posted this into the correct section of the forum.

Many Thanks
Andy

 

[neil_s]

I have a lift keel Seal 28. I have owned her for 17 years and enjoy sailing her - mostly in creek crawling mode - and the cheap mooring options she offers. The Seal 28 has a vertically lifting ballast fin and a stainless steel rudder drop plate. She draws about 0.7 metres with keel and rudder up, while still allowing full control of the boat. Having sung her praises, I have found that the lift keel and rudder blade give a big responsibility for timely and efficient maintenance - there is no option - they must work reliably. I am not familiar with the Southerly 28's arrangements, but if you take one on this is a consideration that should go to the top of your list. Maybe a twin keel boat would be a better start - I nearly bought a Marcon Sabre before choosing 'Andiamo' and still admire them when I see them sailing!

 

[neil_s]

Another thought - wide beam shallow draft boats like are not the most forgiving sailers, either. They heel very little, but the point at which you need to reef is very abrupt and you can find yourself out of control with very little warning. Be prepared to pull a reef down before everybody else!

 

[johnalison]

A friend has/had a Southerly 28. My impression from being on board was that the visibility from the cockpit is virtually nil unless you are standing up. I'm sure sure there are handier boats.

 

[andyb28]

Many thanks for your replies and help.

I am not hung up on the wheel house type setup.
I had not considered the out of control element of a wide beam shallow draft, in my head I wouldnt be out in that kind of weather. But of course thats never a reality, I realise it could happen at any time.

Would a bilge keel be slower and safer for me? There always seem to be a lot of Westerly Centaur's for sale near me. Perhaps thats because they are well suited to our back waters?

It is my intention to go to a couple of brokers locally, but I was a little worried they might just try to sell me something they want to get rid of.

 

[neil_s]

I'm not talking gales - with full sail up, my Seal is very hard to steer at 20 knots wind over the deck - a wind that could easily be a sea breeze. I pull the first reef down when the windometer says 18. As far as bilge keelers go, they aren't all slow - another of my old fancies is the Saddler 26. The Centaur has bolt-on ballast keel stubs and keeping them on a mud mooring can lead to leaks around the keelbolts. There is one in our boatyard having remedial work.

 

[Wansworth]

Bilge keelers have advanced since the 1960 and the bilge keels aredesigned to function just as a fin keel David Felthams bilge keels are fine vessels and take the ground.Not knowing much about boats contact a recommended yacht surveyor to be on your side,anything about 26 foot will be great as a starter craft.The engine is important that it works as most expensive bit of a second hand boat

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I've sailed a 28, and I wouldn't worry overly much about the heeling, they're fine. You'll probably like the bright saloon a lot, and would feel very smug on rainy days, but steering inside when you're sailing is a bit of a non-starter, very uncomfortable, use an autopilot. It was over thirty years ago, so any minor bad points have long since been forgotten.

The big one hasn't though. I've parked a lot of different boats, some of which are said to be terrible in reverse. I've mastered every single one of them - except the S28. Get a little speed on in a straight line and use the rudder gently, works on 'em all. Ty it on the S28 and it's 50/50 which way it'll go. Admittedly we were in a bit of a rush to get away, but I didn't feel that it would ever submit. If you're not going to use marinas much, go ahead but don't say you weren't warned!

That Seal that @neil_s has though, now that's a sailing boat and a half.

 

[fredrussell]

I’m biased because I owned one, but a Super Seal 26 will out-sail all the boats mentioned thus far, draws 40cm with the keel up and has a very simple keel mechanism - no hydraulics or cables to worry about. It’s the East Coast boat!
Prices starting to creep below £10k now too.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I’m biased because I owned one, but a Super Seal 26 will out-sail all the boats mentioned thus far, draws 40cm with the keel up and has a very simple keel mechanism - no hydraulics or cables to worry about. It’s the East Coast boat!
Prices starting to creep below £10k now too.

Oops, major mistake upthread.... I mistook the Seal 28 for the Super Seal 27, the extended version of yours. I couldn't agree more, they really are a sweet boat to sail. I've no experience of the Seal 28.

 

[ashtead]

Many thanks for your replies and help.

I am not hung up on the wheel house type setup.
I had not considered the out of control element of a wide beam shallow draft, in my head I wouldnt be out in that kind of weather. But of course thats never a reality, I realise it could happen at any time.

Would a bilge keel be slower and safer for me? There always seem to be a lot of Westerly Centaur's for sale near me. Perhaps thats because they are well suited to our back waters?

It is my intention to go to a couple of brokers locally, but I was a little worried they might just try to sell me something they want to get rid of.

Westerly centaurs built in huge numbers hence large numbers for sale plus many owners might be retiring from sailing. They do have the vice of heading up into wind if over canvassed and the infamous keel splaying issues but if of interest you might wanted to look for the videos by the ex bbc camera man Turning left . Personally I think if seeking a bilge or lifting keel I might look for a newer design as a first boat unless you enjoy maintenance . Good luck in your searches from a fellow Mirror owner who first cruised on a Centaur so know some of their issues. If looking at centaur a B layout with a new engine , square lights in bow cabin and roller headsail furling and new rigging would be advisable.

 

[andyb28]

Many thanks for all the helpful replies. I am very grateful to for the assistance.
I am learning as quickly as I can, but its fun stuff. Looking at boats is an enjoyable experience.

So, whilst browsing, I have found a number of different Hunter boat models that look good. Would these be considered better twin / bilge keel options? I found this post very helpful Why twin keels are making a comeback - Yachting Monthly

I have watched some of the tuning left videos, but my favourite at the moment is Sailing Fairisle on Youtube. The quality of their videos and content is excellent.

 

[ashtead]

A Hunter Legend is a much newer design than any Westerly . It's slightly confusing in that these Hunters with a back stayless rig have no connection to uk hunters which are much older uk made boats ( for a while though legends were made in Portland) . I suspect a more modern bilge goes to windward bettter than an elderly Westerly but a lifting keel is preferable if more expensive . Would view a few legends and at their owners site as if in the bilge keel market the newer choice is limited

 

[Wanderer14]

[QUOTE="anoccasionalyachtsman, post: 7301297, mem

The big one hasn't though. I've parked a lot of different boats, some of which are said to be terrible in reverse. I've mastered every single one of them - except the S28. Get a little speed on in a straight line and use the rudder gently, works on 'em all. Ty it on the S28 and it's 50/50 which way it'll go. Admittedly we were in a bit of a rush to get away, but I didn't feel that it would ever submit. If you're not going to use marinas much, go ahead but don't say you weren't warned!


[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for this post! I brought a southerly 28 last year, I have had at home for a year fixing her up and after lockdown have managed to get her on the water I have only been out probably 4 or 5 times and I've tried to reverse her with great difficulty being pretty new to sale I was thinking it with me because this was our first big boat to us. I am now happy to realise I am not completely useless at reversing!!

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Thank you so much for this post! I brought a southerly 28 last year, I have had at home for a year fixing her up and after lockdown have managed to get her on the water I have only been out probably 4 or 5 times and I've tried to reverse her with great difficulty being pretty new to sale I was thinking it with me because this was our first big boat to us. I am now happy to realise I am not completely useless at reversing!!

Glad I could help! Really though, I'm sure you'll find a way to best my win ratio - do let us know how you do it.

One tip. Get out in open water and try there. (If there's a breeze put it into reverse at tickover and it will slowly find its way to sitting with the bow downwind). The prop's tendency to pull the stern sideway one way in reverse will help to get a turn going in that direction when you increase the revs and the steer into it. If that works, at least you know you can turn in one direction reliably, and once you've got some speed on you may find that it improves enormously.

 

[Wanderer14]

I think my best way would be a bow thruster!
Need to get out in some calm seas and try as the marina is very small, had the wife hold a line last time and we have been turning it round by hand.
I had a pandora 22 before with a outboard, like you say once I got to 1 to 2 knots and then just gentle turn the tiller it would go no problems. This just doesn't seem to go anywhere, but I will keep on trying, it's just putting me of entering anywhere new.
Loving the new space of the boat tho and she is well equipped.

 

[Wanderer14]

Good Afternoon All,

I joined the forum today as I need some help about picking my first boat.

I have been learning to sail in a Mirror and am getting the hang of it now. Also have spoken to a local sailing club and will be joining that once they can accept new members (pending covid rules).
For a while now I have been looking at used boats and trying to work out what kind of boat would suit me best. I live near Brightlingsea in Essex and have a number of mooring options.

My plan for sailing will only be exploring local waters and because of that I think a bilge keel or lifting keel will suit me better. But really would like to know if thats correct. These keels also get me onto the cheaper moorings.
I have had many power boats previously, but I have clearly reached an age where sailing appeals to me more.

In my research I found a used 1979 Southerly 28, this seems to me to be a good option for me with the lifting keel and I like the idea of a sheltered controls when they are needed. I have been unuable to find if they are an easy first boat to learn on.
I have been specifically avoiding the faster race style boats, just something easy and forgiving.

Any other suggestions for mud mooring and easy to sail would also be gratefully received. My budget is up to around £10k.
I hope I have posted this into the correct section of the forum.

Many Thanks
Andy

If you need any information you can ring me or text 07814917529.

 

[C08]

I have spoken to a ouple of Southerly owners who have both complained bitterly about the difficulty berthing the boats as the rudders being so far apart you do not get any prop wash to assist parking. For a first boat there are probably others as mentioned better for your purpose.

 

[Stemar]

I have spoken to a ouple of Southerly owners who have both complained bitterly about the difficulty berthing the boats as the rudders being so far apart you do not get any prop wash to assist parking. For a first boat there are probably others as mentioned better for your purpose.

I think that applies to the newer Southerlies. IIRC, even Southerly said you need a bow thruster for playing marina dodgems.

I've long thought that my ideal boat would be something like a Southerly with diesel electric engine and an azipod just ahead of each rudder

 

[[163233]]

I have spoken to a ouple of Southerly owners who have both complained bitterly about the difficulty berthing the boats as the rudders being so far apart you do not get any prop wash to assist parking. For a first boat there are probably others as mentioned better for your purpose.

The Southerly 28 has a single transom hung rudder though I have heard people say it's too small but I couldn't say.
I see they're going for around 10k now, which is incredibly good value. I always fancied one when I sailed in the NW as so many places dry or get very shallow, but I couldn't afford one.

In the SE something capable of creek crawling seems a good idea, as you'll likely end up aground at some point if you push it a bit.