Sort of non boaty -Email

[Obi]

I am a telecomms consultant, among other things. Never been involved in websites, but when I wanted a provider I asked a lot of colleagues and the advice was unanimous. Zen.co.uk. They are more expensive than some, but you get what you pay for and I have never sat on hold for longer than 10 minutes, never been passed from pillar to post by Zen, and the staff are almost all superb trouble shooters. For me the decision was based on: How much time and money do I want to spend sorting out problems when I have them? Over 20+ years I have had minutes of down time on the services and when I do have a problem I make one call and the person responsible deals with it, calls back when they say they will and that is usually the end of the matter.
Conversely, I know people who go for the cheaper options or the big companies like godaddy and their lives are turned into a turgid hell everytime they have a problem.

 

[bluerm166]

If you go for the very satisfactory gmail ,meaning you will have a google account (if not already) you can also use their other free apps such as Drive ,Sites,blogs etc etc.etc.

 

[Greemble]

Hotmail : if any contact is made in my business with a Hotmail account - it is usual for that user to be asked by many in my 'world' to use Gmail or another 'free' system.
Similarly for Skype...

Reason being is that the data mining that occurs on those two is legendary... well it is Microsoft !

Wait - Hotmail is not good because of Microsoft's data mining?

So you tell them to set up an email account with Google?

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Some of us spotted that trap in the the nineties and have run own mail domains since ..
At first somewhat experimental

Me too

 

[Refueler]

Wait - Hotmail is not good because of Microsoft's data mining?

So you tell them to set up an email account with Google?

I agree that ALL free systems use Data Mining .... but its the level and what its used for. If you check - you will find that Google allows User more scope to limit this.
Of course in the Petrochem / Shipping world - we all prefer contacts to use dedicated own domain and servers ... or use Protonmail. But even 'richboys' are cheapskates and use free services. The question is which do you trust ... and Hotmail is not trusted in my world. Maybe its old worries .. but its what it is.

We do not specifically say only Gmail - we say if they insist on free system - to choose Gmail or other free system ...

 

[Obi]

I agree that ALL free systems use Data Mining .... but its the level and what its used for. If you check - you will find that Google allows User more scope to limit this.
Of course in the Petrochem / Shipping world - we all prefer contacts to use dedicated own domain and servers ... or use Protonmail. But even 'richboys' are cheapskates and use free services. The question is which do you trust ... and Hotmail is not trusted in my world. Maybe its old worries .. but its what it is.

We do not specifically say only Gmail - we say if they insist on free system - to choose Gmail or other free system ...

Hi Refueler I am interested to learn a bit more about your industry's aversion to Microsoft. Google started out as a business model designed to sell user data, Microsoft did not and only came to the game later. I have used Hotmail for nearly 30 years, and rail against any google accounts whether that be youtube or gmail and anything else. I am aware of MS telemetry which became a bit OTT as of Win7 late in it's life. But this can be locked down if one knows how to, although doing so is not a trivial task and one can never be 100% sure. I also know hotmail mines the content of email, but Google mines everything.

When Google Chrome was released the EULA had a clause stating that anything, anything you sent via any email or uplaoded anywhere via your Chrome browser became Google's IP. So yep, if i logged into a work email using Chrome and uploaded a network architecture diagram for a major network operator, Google then owned it. Thankfully an industry pundit read the EULA and brought it to light. Google claimed it was accidental and their entire battle fleet of lawyers had over looked it. Let me be clear, lawyers in the software industry are some of the most hawk like in attention to detail and what is and is not monetised.

I quite imagine Google has removed any record of this from the search engines results. They have been highly adept at censorship, especially in the last three years.

FWIW, Youtube is so heavily censored now that any idea of the web being a tool for democracy is becoming laughable. Rumble.com folks try Rumble.com for your videos. Much more democratic.

Microsoft do not demand my mobile number, but recently I was completely unable to get an Android phone because of gmail/mobile account associations that were no longer valid. I was unable to create a new gmail for android because my old one was still associated with the mobile. Due to the email addresses age, lack of use (serious lack of use) and archive status I was unable to recover that gmail and as such the android phone got returned to store and for the upteenth time I ended up with apple again.

Google's insistence on knowing my phone so that I can have an account is an abuse of their position. IMO.

 

[Refueler]

It comes about from MS take over of Skype basically. Plus the history of Hotmail being hacked so much ... the two together do not inspire anyone in sensitive world of Petrochems to ever trust them.

I am not going to go deeper as that brings in many aspects that cross borders.

You can take it that in such world - preference is for separatist setups and only non-sensitive / unimportant first contact etc. would be considered via any Free Email service.

 

[Greemble]

Maybe its old worries... but it's what it is.

We do not specifically say only Gmail - we say if they insist on free system - to choose Gmail or other free system...

Yes, this is why I stated 'had' earlier.

Gmail is seriously mined - No-one is better at mining than Google and the tools they give you are not as effective as you might think.
Hotmail/Live/Outlook has never been close, despite the anti-Microsoft rhetoric over the years.
It should also be noted that the reputation of Hotmail being hacked more than any other system isn't really deserved. It was likely targeted more than the rest, but that was just because it was Microsoft.

I'm not sure is anyone still uses Skype. Microsoft certainly did mess it up, that's very true. However, those that were in charge back then are no longer - Even Mr. Gates is doing other things.

 

[ChromeDome]

Do not underestimate the power of Microsoft. 40 years of commercial contact with them proves to me that they use their monopolistic posistion to the limit (=being fined). Since they started to moan "cloud" at every breath they took, the whole licensing regime has turned into revenue making. Not a problem when you know and accept this, but pretending to do any sort of negotiation with them nowadays is a lie.

If you do your very best in negotiation, you will end up at the price they decided for you months before you even started talking to them.

In that regard, they decide which way the globe turn - not you!

 

[Refueler]

Microsoft annoys me by the way they run the grey line ....

I've just bought a new PC Notebook ... lighter thinner and faster than my old i5 ones I have .... purely for email, report checking and travel.

Microsoft despite all the court rulings and findings against them to desist from imposing their shite utilities on users ... it still tries to push me to MS Edge (most sites and bank onlines fail with Edge) ... wants me to pay subscription to their shite Office 365 .... which when we did use it had frequent stoppages as it tried to connect to internet to download or adjust a component ... marvelous when travelling !
Of course MS gets round it by saying all are optional ... then why did my new PC .. as with so many before it ... have them as default and then I have to spend time getting rid of them ??

 

[Refueler]

The bottom line is :

The moment we see a contact with Hotmail address - we ignore them to be honest ... no serious trader uses free email ...

If we think they may have product or we consider to take it further - then we ask that they organise secure communications. The best of course is Protonmail as I already mentioned ... which is free or can be subscription service.

 

[Obi]

Thanks for sharing Refueler.

 

[Iliade]

So why use it ? Honest question.

We don't, but many of our customers do...

 

[Refueler]

We don't, but many of our customers do...

Fine .... my business deals with multi million $ cargoes that are moved by extremely "sensitive" and often daft people !!

 

[Fantasie 19]

I've just skimmed the Plusnet forum re email service withdrawal and I'm not convinced they're closing it down; only a rumour.

But if they do, and you only have a username.plus.com email address, there won't be much you can do. But if you also have your own domain name, just transfer it to another provider - I chose eUKHost.

When I left Plusnet, they let me keep my plus.com email address, just forwarding everything to my new email, free of charge. But you must tell them before closing the account!

I think they/Plusnet provide the Waitrose email service, and that is definitely being withdrawn in June.. I went to GMAIL..

 

[alahol2]

Penguin Internet do a relatively cheap (£10/annum) web and email hosting package. A domain will cost about £10/£12 every couple of years. You are then more or less independent. They are very responsive whenever I've had a problem/question.