tcm
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Re: Sell the house immediately? nm
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Some more stupid questions! Long post.
- Thread starter Steve101
- Start date
paulineb
Active member
Re: Sell the house immediately? nm
I'm moving onto my boat in 4 weeks - can't wait !!!
Pxx
I'm moving onto my boat in 4 weeks - can't wait !!!
Pxx
rhinorhino
New member
Steve,
I think there is something to be said on both sides of this debate.
My first boat was a HR36, not unlike your proposed purchase, and I don't in any way regret it, however haveing been down this route there are a number of points I could make;
1. There is a vast difference between kit you think you will need and that which turns out to be useful after you have been sailing for a while. For example I have a PC with Seapro software, totaltide SSB radio software, this was not cheap, I also have a Raymarine R80 with a deck repeater, one year on I realise that i could have done without the Pc and spent the money on colour daylight viewable plotters instead. So there is some sence in saying wait before getting kit unless retro-fitting is very costly.
2. The ideal boat for learning / cross-channel day sailing is very diferent from one for entertaining or one for a trans-altantic. When I sell up and go off round the world I will look at something like Steve dashews 80' ketchs, at $4m / 300 miles a day but try finding some where to park it. It might be worth considering buying a smaller (but not small) boat now and then either chartering or buying a monster for that special project. I sail a 70' but I would not like to own one on the south coast of the UK. 38' is too small for really comfortable world cruise.
3. Kit rots if not used, water-makers are the worst example but generators are nearly as bad. Whole lot would propably need massive over-haul if not replacement by the time you were ready to set off.
4. You really are at the bottom of a very steep learning curve, guy taught me to sail has only 50 years under his belt and he still recons he learns something ever time he goes out. Unlike life ashore, you can't call in a consultant or liquidate the firm if it all goes wrong.
5. Don't be put off, I once suggested on this board that someone might like to split the costs of a cruise on a charter boat, I got a load of replies that suggested I was littel better than a criminal for even suggesting it. Ignored them,, got a team togeather and had a really great time. Do charter an identical boat before you buy.
I think there is something to be said on both sides of this debate.
My first boat was a HR36, not unlike your proposed purchase, and I don't in any way regret it, however haveing been down this route there are a number of points I could make;
1. There is a vast difference between kit you think you will need and that which turns out to be useful after you have been sailing for a while. For example I have a PC with Seapro software, totaltide SSB radio software, this was not cheap, I also have a Raymarine R80 with a deck repeater, one year on I realise that i could have done without the Pc and spent the money on colour daylight viewable plotters instead. So there is some sence in saying wait before getting kit unless retro-fitting is very costly.
2. The ideal boat for learning / cross-channel day sailing is very diferent from one for entertaining or one for a trans-altantic. When I sell up and go off round the world I will look at something like Steve dashews 80' ketchs, at $4m / 300 miles a day but try finding some where to park it. It might be worth considering buying a smaller (but not small) boat now and then either chartering or buying a monster for that special project. I sail a 70' but I would not like to own one on the south coast of the UK. 38' is too small for really comfortable world cruise.
3. Kit rots if not used, water-makers are the worst example but generators are nearly as bad. Whole lot would propably need massive over-haul if not replacement by the time you were ready to set off.
4. You really are at the bottom of a very steep learning curve, guy taught me to sail has only 50 years under his belt and he still recons he learns something ever time he goes out. Unlike life ashore, you can't call in a consultant or liquidate the firm if it all goes wrong.
5. Don't be put off, I once suggested on this board that someone might like to split the costs of a cruise on a charter boat, I got a load of replies that suggested I was littel better than a criminal for even suggesting it. Ignored them,, got a team togeather and had a really great time. Do charter an identical boat before you buy.
Steve101
N/A
Thanks, I'm going to charter a Moody 38 in July for two weeks. I think you're right about retro fitting extras aswell. I'm going to get prices on both tomorrow and ask about quality of retrofits aswell (Don't want unsightly wires/pipes!)
I'm learning slowly!
I'm learning slowly!
sidon
New member
Re: Not fair
I thoroughly agree with Jeremy F. Steve has come onto this forum genuinely asking for advice, and all he has mainly received is scorn poured over him by experienced people, for wanting to participate in a passtime that we all love. Instead of ridiculing Steve we ought to encourage him, after all this is not a closed club that only members can join. Sailing or motorboating is a sport/passtime for anyone who is lucky enough financially or otherwise to join in. Surely we all can remember starting somewhere, and allthough the shorebased courses are useful there is no substitute for hands on experience. I know of 2 people who started sailing on a 37ft boat with no experience, and through sheer determination they are both excellent seamen, having recently returned without incident from the Biscay Triangle. They are now purchasing a larger boat to do a Carribean cruise, and all this in 2 years. So take heart Steve, if you want something badly enough anything is possible as long as you have a respect for the sea and know your theory. Best of luck.
I thoroughly agree with Jeremy F. Steve has come onto this forum genuinely asking for advice, and all he has mainly received is scorn poured over him by experienced people, for wanting to participate in a passtime that we all love. Instead of ridiculing Steve we ought to encourage him, after all this is not a closed club that only members can join. Sailing or motorboating is a sport/passtime for anyone who is lucky enough financially or otherwise to join in. Surely we all can remember starting somewhere, and allthough the shorebased courses are useful there is no substitute for hands on experience. I know of 2 people who started sailing on a 37ft boat with no experience, and through sheer determination they are both excellent seamen, having recently returned without incident from the Biscay Triangle. They are now purchasing a larger boat to do a Carribean cruise, and all this in 2 years. So take heart Steve, if you want something badly enough anything is possible as long as you have a respect for the sea and know your theory. Best of luck.
Grehan
Well-known member
wow!
Bloody hell
Everyone's got to participate in this one, it's a kind of all-night party. 4am, got to get up and dance, they've just put Brown Sugar on - ergain.
An excellent post, and excellent heartfelt replies - even if they've rubbed people up the wrong way from time to time, including Mr Steve101. Who is entitled to feel aggrieved about being patronised, but who also needs to understand that these forums exist to enable people with opinions to express them. Robustly.
It has encapsulated the modern sailing dilemma - f*ck off and follow your dream, or take the time and become a 'proper sailor' (because it is indeed potentially life-threateningly dangerous out there).
Many of the sailing adventurers so beloved nowadays (Slocum, Hiscock, Moitessier . . ) sailed off into a relatively unknown and "unsafe" world so far as cruising was concerned. We admire their initiative and self-reliance, and wish (do we?) we could do the same. I guess Tania Albei's is the ultimate example - well and truly thrown in at the deep end, but a girl with great reserves of guts (and with the classic good little yacht, too). Engine was pretty chronic as I recall.
This thread has veered on the one hand from trying - quite genuinely - to offer what people think is good sensible advice. I suspect some of this (eg Vyv_Cox :: respect!) comes from skilled and experienced sailors who also know how tough it can be out there. BobT on the other hand says "do it, mate" and if you can, then why the hell not? Just the One life to the best of my knowledge, so d'you want to look forward to a bungalow with a zimmer frame parked outside? Or summat else?
Seems to me that Steve101 is not quite playing it as safe as I would - have done (that's my yellow streak to the fore). I just have to have the security of over-planning, maybe over-caution. On the other hand, maybe I haven't got Steve's balls. And you do need them, don't you? Pauline? And on the other hand I'm (that's we're . . .) also planning to abandon my/our business and cast our fate to the winds. [that WAS a cheesy record]. So that's not very sensible, is it? And Steve's actually being sensibly prudent in asking for good advice, and he's getting in some sailing, doing the courses etc and not planning to anything too much for a little while.
A bit naive? Well yes, but that's not a crime and we all have to learn like it or not. I guess the thing I do worry about is not Steve and his . . er . . drive, but Ang. Does she know what he's letting her in for? He says he's lived life at 100mph. Guess she's used to it then. BTW Steve - don't mean to patronise - no offence
Take care, Steve and Ang . .
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but Well Done!!!!
Bloody hell
Everyone's got to participate in this one, it's a kind of all-night party. 4am, got to get up and dance, they've just put Brown Sugar on - ergain.
An excellent post, and excellent heartfelt replies - even if they've rubbed people up the wrong way from time to time, including Mr Steve101. Who is entitled to feel aggrieved about being patronised, but who also needs to understand that these forums exist to enable people with opinions to express them. Robustly.
It has encapsulated the modern sailing dilemma - f*ck off and follow your dream, or take the time and become a 'proper sailor' (because it is indeed potentially life-threateningly dangerous out there).
Many of the sailing adventurers so beloved nowadays (Slocum, Hiscock, Moitessier . . ) sailed off into a relatively unknown and "unsafe" world so far as cruising was concerned. We admire their initiative and self-reliance, and wish (do we?) we could do the same. I guess Tania Albei's is the ultimate example - well and truly thrown in at the deep end, but a girl with great reserves of guts (and with the classic good little yacht, too). Engine was pretty chronic as I recall.
This thread has veered on the one hand from trying - quite genuinely - to offer what people think is good sensible advice. I suspect some of this (eg Vyv_Cox :: respect!) comes from skilled and experienced sailors who also know how tough it can be out there. BobT on the other hand says "do it, mate" and if you can, then why the hell not? Just the One life to the best of my knowledge, so d'you want to look forward to a bungalow with a zimmer frame parked outside? Or summat else?
Seems to me that Steve101 is not quite playing it as safe as I would - have done (that's my yellow streak to the fore). I just have to have the security of over-planning, maybe over-caution. On the other hand, maybe I haven't got Steve's balls. And you do need them, don't you? Pauline? And on the other hand I'm (that's we're . . .) also planning to abandon my/our business and cast our fate to the winds. [that WAS a cheesy record]. So that's not very sensible, is it? And Steve's actually being sensibly prudent in asking for good advice, and he's getting in some sailing, doing the courses etc and not planning to anything too much for a little while.
A bit naive? Well yes, but that's not a crime and we all have to learn like it or not. I guess the thing I do worry about is not Steve and his . . er . . drive, but Ang. Does she know what he's letting her in for? He says he's lived life at 100mph. Guess she's used to it then. BTW Steve - don't mean to patronise - no offence
Take care, Steve and Ang . .
.
.
but Well Done!!!!
paulineb
Active member
Re: wow!
What would I do with Steve's balls? and why would you want them? Is this a yottie thing?
Pxx
What would I do with Steve's balls? and why would you want them? Is this a yottie thing?
Pxx
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Central paradox
80 gallons we live comfotrably for 7 days away from marinas etc
80 gallons we live comfotrably for 7 days away from marinas etc
nicho
Well-known member
Blimey Steve, I've been away for two weeks and am just catching up with Scuttlebutt - I've been ploughing through this thread of yours for nearly and hour and still only half way through!! - you've really stirred them up this time and many of the postings have become rather personal, but to a degree you are rather combative. I'm in your position, buying a sailing boat for the first time, though in my case after many years of owning an 11 metre motor cruiser. I have found the regular posters on this forum have a wealth of knowledge, and have been extremely helpful in answering some of my questions, and have helped me choose my boat, and one has invited me for a sail on his own boat to get some valuable experience before my boat arrives. Of course, their opinions will vary, and some may be sceptical (there have, I'm sure, been some wind ups on this forum in the past), but it only really gets personal if you attack their honestly held views You might be better not hitting back so hard if you do not agree with their thoughts - many are highly experienced, and do know what they are talking abouit. I went to the Show last Friday and placed an order for a Bavaria 36 for January delivery (it was to be the 32 but SHMBO preferred the cabin size on the bigger boat). I'm sure some will feel that this is too big for a first time (sailing) boat - I've got lots of experience of boating on the South Coast/Channel Islands etc, but short of experience on how to handle a sail boat. Just had a week with Southern Sailing School (excellant by the way) on a 34 Sadler, and will take a professional skipper with us for the first week (at least). We'll then build up experience in and around the Solent next year before a Channel crossing in 2004. Good luck in your endeavours - hope you are successful in your purchase (did you see the glorious and huge Moody at the Show (65'?), and did you do as I did and instantly trade up?!)
Steve101
N/A
Thanks for the post! I was invited onto the Moody54 whilst they got rid of the poor people on the '38 (ONLY JOKING!!!!) and OH MY GOD the house had gone up for sale (ONLY JOKING AGAIN!!!). It was stunning and to be fair set the tone for the day, which was: only look at boats you can afford!
I've had a bit of bad news which may mean I have to bring the purchase of the Moody '38 forward by over a year so I guess I'll probably get a slap on the wrist for that as well. The 64 was awsome, so was the Manhattan 105 (No I didn't go one them! I couldn't, I wont, I can't. Temptation would be too great to buy a bigger boat and cock it up big style!)
Show was fantastic (Overwhelming to a degree!) Learnt quite a bit and even managed to get on scuttlebutts to check on you lot.........couldn't post though!
I've got loads to say, ask, do so I'll post it in another thread. One thing I will say though is that my head was turned by the Benetaue 42cc, so if the Moody38 falls through I'll probably go for that.
As for the other stuff, it's old news now, so let's get on with getting on. (Even the girl patroling the ybw.com bar knew who I was. Notorious or what!!!!)
I've had a bit of bad news which may mean I have to bring the purchase of the Moody '38 forward by over a year so I guess I'll probably get a slap on the wrist for that as well. The 64 was awsome, so was the Manhattan 105 (No I didn't go one them! I couldn't, I wont, I can't. Temptation would be too great to buy a bigger boat and cock it up big style!)
Show was fantastic (Overwhelming to a degree!) Learnt quite a bit and even managed to get on scuttlebutts to check on you lot.........couldn't post though!
I've got loads to say, ask, do so I'll post it in another thread. One thing I will say though is that my head was turned by the Benetaue 42cc, so if the Moody38 falls through I'll probably go for that.
As for the other stuff, it's old news now, so let's get on with getting on. (Even the girl patroling the ybw.com bar knew who I was. Notorious or what!!!!)
david_e
Active member
Re: Sell the house immediately? nm
it's funny you should say that!
it's funny you should say that!
sailbadthesinner
New member
Steve
I cannot comment about the generator
but you donot need air con in the caribean and it being boaty will probably not work and only eat power and money
also if you intemd to live aboard you will get used to the climate. i find a big fridge full of cold beer the best solution.
leccy winches nice to have. if you want 'em get em, praps not needed but then mercedes are not needed as you can you buy a horse and go round on that.
spinnaker pole. Well i am all for trying. how else are you going to learn how to use a spinnaker. anyone who says you have to wait a year is talking rot. i sailed for years without one. when i finlly came to try one i could not say i was any better prepared for waiting.
Beer! Now there's a temporary solution.
I cannot comment about the generator
but you donot need air con in the caribean and it being boaty will probably not work and only eat power and money
also if you intemd to live aboard you will get used to the climate. i find a big fridge full of cold beer the best solution.
leccy winches nice to have. if you want 'em get em, praps not needed but then mercedes are not needed as you can you buy a horse and go round on that.
spinnaker pole. Well i am all for trying. how else are you going to learn how to use a spinnaker. anyone who says you have to wait a year is talking rot. i sailed for years without one. when i finlly came to try one i could not say i was any better prepared for waiting.
Beer! Now there's a temporary solution.
G
Guest
Guest
I just thought I'd try and help Steve along to his 150 posts. I've read the whole thread and found it to be a very interesting psychology lesson.
I've just bought my own first boat (in May), only 31ft long and very second hand, and needed to learn. Sent SWMBO on Day Skipper, Read Tom Cunliffes book and bought a GPS. This summer went off from Ramsgate down the French Coast, back to Brighton and then along the coast to Ramsgate. No-one died, got a bit scary (night crossing from Fecamp-Brighton), but all in all a jolly good time was had by all.
Admittedly I've sailed Dinghies and done a couple of Med Flotilla holidays, but my real experience in tidal water was non-existent.
Now presumably, the old-hands will say I'm foolish, but every time I've been out on the boat I've learned something and I've learned it from direct first-line experience, not from a book or a video or a forum. Experience is what this game is all about, and most of us haven't got the money to hire someone to come out with us everyday to make sure we are doing it all right.
The only time anything dodgy has happened on my boat was on the delivery trip when we hired a (very expensive) delivery skipper, who in actual fact was a very keen racer (and, incidentally, female). Approaching Dover, we had the spinnaker up, and were very close to the ferry terminal. I suggested that in the book it says leave at least a mile. This was disregarded. As we got to within about 200 yards of a SeaFrance ferry, she decided it was time to teach us how to take a spinnaker down. Result: Had to put the tiller hard down, I failed to release the halyard, boat at about 75degrees, broken spinnaker pole, but just missed the ferry.
Since then, I've always erred on the side of caution.
The two main themes running through this thread seem to be "Go for it", or "You're not allowed in this club till you have lots of experiece".
If Steve wants to join my club, he can..
Mark Leuty
P.S. In my early days, I could work out why my dad's Enterprise had an E on the sail, but I could never work out why a GP14 had a Bell. I was too scared to ask in case I got ridiculed.
I've just bought my own first boat (in May), only 31ft long and very second hand, and needed to learn. Sent SWMBO on Day Skipper, Read Tom Cunliffes book and bought a GPS. This summer went off from Ramsgate down the French Coast, back to Brighton and then along the coast to Ramsgate. No-one died, got a bit scary (night crossing from Fecamp-Brighton), but all in all a jolly good time was had by all.
Admittedly I've sailed Dinghies and done a couple of Med Flotilla holidays, but my real experience in tidal water was non-existent.
Now presumably, the old-hands will say I'm foolish, but every time I've been out on the boat I've learned something and I've learned it from direct first-line experience, not from a book or a video or a forum. Experience is what this game is all about, and most of us haven't got the money to hire someone to come out with us everyday to make sure we are doing it all right.
The only time anything dodgy has happened on my boat was on the delivery trip when we hired a (very expensive) delivery skipper, who in actual fact was a very keen racer (and, incidentally, female). Approaching Dover, we had the spinnaker up, and were very close to the ferry terminal. I suggested that in the book it says leave at least a mile. This was disregarded. As we got to within about 200 yards of a SeaFrance ferry, she decided it was time to teach us how to take a spinnaker down. Result: Had to put the tiller hard down, I failed to release the halyard, boat at about 75degrees, broken spinnaker pole, but just missed the ferry.
Since then, I've always erred on the side of caution.
The two main themes running through this thread seem to be "Go for it", or "You're not allowed in this club till you have lots of experiece".
If Steve wants to join my club, he can..
Mark Leuty
P.S. In my early days, I could work out why my dad's Enterprise had an E on the sail, but I could never work out why a GP14 had a Bell. I was too scared to ask in case I got ridiculed.
BarryH
Active member
Made by Bell Woodworking, or somthing like that. Probably totally wrong tho!!
OK, to hell with it. Unbolt it and we'll use it as an anchor!
OK, to hell with it. Unbolt it and we'll use it as an anchor!
paulineb
Active member
oi - get off. There's too many stinkies on here already !!
Pxx
Pxx
BarryH
Active member
Why is it women are always telling me to "get off", I haven't finished yet/forums/images/icons/wink.gif Any how I'm a closet raggie!!
OK, to hell with it. Unbolt it and we'll use it as an anchor!
OK, to hell with it. Unbolt it and we'll use it as an anchor!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Back to reality ?
Incorrigible (sorry, it's my job). I used to know a couple of girls who were encouragable.
Incorrigible (sorry, it's my job). I used to know a couple of girls who were encouragable.
G
Guest
Guest
Pauline
Ever thought of toning it down a bit with a picture from Victorias Secrets rather than Agent Provocateur.
Us Raggies are a prudish lot, haven't seen a lot of life apart from the same bit of sea for hours because the tides in the wrong direction and we haven't got enough oomph downstairs.
Ever thought of toning it down a bit with a picture from Victorias Secrets rather than Agent Provocateur.
Us Raggies are a prudish lot, haven't seen a lot of life apart from the same bit of sea for hours because the tides in the wrong direction and we haven't got enough oomph downstairs.
Jeremy_W
New member
>>>>Us Raggies are a prudish lot, because ... we haven't got enough oomph downstairs.
Speak for yourself, Mark. Is this still the Steve 101 saga or an episode of Oprah?
Speak for yourself, Mark. Is this still the Steve 101 saga or an episode of Oprah?
ChrisJ
New member
The bell on the GP14 comes from "the bells of Aberdovey".
Which raises two further questions that I can't answer:
1. Why should the Aberdovey bells be important?
2. Why is the GP14 linked to Aberdovey?
Which raises two further questions that I can't answer:
1. Why should the Aberdovey bells be important?
2. Why is the GP14 linked to Aberdovey?
