Solid cruiser recommendations

[vseager]

Apologies for the two consecutive threads, I wrote it as one and then realised it was very long and didn't really cut to the chase on either of my questions.

We're thinking about upgrading from a Dufour to a boat that will hopefully stay in the family forever and be more suitable (comfortable) for longer stays at anchor and perhaps sailing further afield one day. There are three of us who are involved in the hunt for the new vessel and inevitably our priorities don't all align in the same order...

* The entertainer who wants to be able to dine outside and sleep in a fabulous cabin
* An ex-dinghy racer who doesn't like hanging around
* Me who just wants something that has a safe cockpit, is built like a tank and that will take care of her crew in all weathers.

There are a couple of things that we do all agree on:

* Size - between 40ft - 43ft would be ideal.
* Price - up to £180k absolute max - this would need to be the perfect yacht etc so depending on condition.
* Must have two heads
* At least two good sized double cabins

We looked at a Malo, it was essentially my dream boat, it was top of budget and did still need odd bits doing such as as a new bimini cover, but was fully kitted out and very well maintained generally. However, for the others the cockpit was too small for a full spread buffet service meal (eat below deck and come up for a drink I said!), and they felt that it had some equipment that would require maintenance but that we may not get the use out of, such as a water maker.

Things I liked about the Malo:

* Safe cockpit
* Hard dodger
* Encapsulated keel with lead bulb
* Skeg hung rudder
* Shaft drive (Saildrives just feel vulnerable to me)
* Deep, comfortable hull shape
* Thick, well-insulated hull and deck - condensation drives us mad despite our best efforts
* The targa arch bringing the main sheet and track to the end of the boom without intruding in the cockpit

As mentioned in my other thread, we are looking into Moody's as an alternative which are not as well equipped, nor do they have the encapsulated keel, but do have a semi skeg thing rudder and I quite like the centre cockpits which keep the main sheet at the back.

I'm looking for suggestions for other options that we should be looking at and considering. Any ideas would be appreciated!

 

[ashtead]

Are you seeking a centre cockpit or aft cockpit vessel? We have a moody 41 at 12.8 which you can have with 2 heads and 2 cabins, large cockpit but no lead keel and has a sail drive. If you have German mainsheet system no issues with nasty tracks etc . If you want shaft drive that might be first aspect to rule out many vessels maybe? Have you considered US boats ?

 

[vseager]

I accept there will inevitably be compromises so sail drive wouldn't be a dealbreaker if it was otherwise the right vessel. Same with CC, will look at all options. Obviously the Scandinavian yards are desirable if within budget but wouldn't rule out US boats or UK (Moody) etc. The ultimate priority for me is solid construction, but it needs to be a comfortable boat and cater for the cruising lifestyle too.

 

[ip485]

Clearly an Island Packer, rock solid built, very safe, beautifully made, go any where, any time, and despite what is said at this size goes uphill pretty well.

 

[ashtead]

Plus 1 for the island packet once you learn to manoeuvre astern and the lack of rear drop stern . . Lovely boats though and nice wide doors below I recall . Good for the ICW of course but might be better boats for south coast sailing. I guess it depends on the OP plans and what further afield means. If crossing the Atlantic seems a good choice but around the Solent ?

 

[E39mad]

Najad
Sunbeam
If you can find one over here a Baltic 43 from the 1990's - it's more of a cruiser/racer and very few boats are better built and it can take you anywhere. There are a few on Yachtworld

Edit: If you want a Pilot house/deck saloon the Wauquiez range are well made and the 43 fits the budget.

 

[Stemar]

There's a Vagabond at my club that recently came back from long term cruising. I've always liked the look of them and they seem to be pretty bomb proof.

 

[Chae_73]

worth having a look at:

HR 42
C-Yacht 39
Malo 39
Sweden Yachts 41/42

edit: for clarity - not all of the above have skeg hung rudders or conventional prop shafts; basically just a wish list I compiled when idly wondering what boat I would buy if I sold my house and/ or won the lottery.

Sail drive gland failure seems quite a bit rarer than rudder failure, again based purely on internet research and anecdote.

 

[Carib]

cockpit was too small for a full spread buffet service meal

Have to say this made me laugh! Is this seriously a deal breaker?

 

[Caladh]

Apologies for the two consecutive threads, I wrote it as one and then realised it was very long and didn't really cut to the chase on either of my questions.

We're thinking about upgrading from a Dufour to a boat that will hopefully stay in the family forever and be more suitable (comfortable) for longer stays at anchor and perhaps sailing further afield one day. There are three of us who are involved in the hunt for the new vessel and inevitably our priorities don't all align in the same order...

* The entertainer who wants to be able to dine outside and sleep in a fabulous cabin
* An ex-dinghy racer who doesn't like hanging around
* Me who just wants something that has a safe cockpit, is built like a tank and that will take care of her crew in all weathers.

There are a couple of things that we do all agree on:

* Size - between 40ft - 43ft would be ideal.
* Price - up to £180k absolute max - this would need to be the perfect yacht etc so depending on condition.
* Must have two heads
* At least two good sized double cabins

We looked at a Malo, it was essentially my dream boat, it was top of budget and did still need odd bits doing such as as a new bimini cover, but was fully kitted out and very well maintained generally. However, for the others the cockpit was too small for a full spread buffet service meal (eat below deck and come up for a drink I said!), and they felt that it had some equipment that would require maintenance but that we may not get the use out of, such as a water maker.

Things I liked about the Malo:

* Safe cockpit
* Hard dodger
* Encapsulated keel with lead bulb
* Skeg hung rudder
* Shaft drive (Saildrives just feel vulnerable to me)
* Deep, comfortable hull shape
* Thick, well-insulated hull and deck - condensation drives us mad despite our best efforts
* The targa arch bringing the main sheet and track to the end of the boom without intruding in the cockpit

As mentioned in my other thread, we are looking into Moody's as an alternative which are not as well equipped, nor do they have the encapsulated keel, but do have a semi skeg thing rudder and I quite like the centre cockpits which keep the main sheet at the back.

I'm looking for suggestions for other options that we should be looking at and considering. Any ideas would be appreciated!

We have a Malo 39 so PM me if you want more info.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Have to say this made me laugh! Is this seriously a priority?

Of course it is .... being sociable is a big part of cruising for many people ... even blue water sailors spend an awful lot of time at anchor.

No point in being in warm sunshine with an enclosed cockpit, cut in half by the main sheet traveller, and only big enough to seat 4 (with interlocking knees). If it wasn't an important criteria then we'd see modern boats with much shorter cockpits and more volume below .... but we don't.

Yachting is a lifestyle choice for the well heeled, and people like lounging around, room to sunbath, with a swim platform, swim ladder and fresh water shower - big table, lots of space, fridge in the cockpit and preferably with a BBQ/Sink combo on the stern too - think fully equipped patio with sea view - or modern Mobo.

You don't get these things in an old style boat - you sit there, in something akin to a large bathtub, knees inches apart, staring at each other in 2 regimented rows.

This is what people dream about ....





... so of course it's important.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

"..... a full spread buffet service meal"
In my book that's the one where the pots of bolognese sauce and pasta are left in the fiddles on the hob for everyone to serve themselves!

 

[wully1]

This is what people dream about ....

View attachment 100051

I don’t! Looks crappy to me. Then again I like boats that look like boats.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I don’t! Looks crappy to me. Then again I like boats that look like boats.

So when in history do you want to stop the evolutionary clock on boat design then?

If all sailors and maritime designers thought like that, the marinas would be full of boats like this ....



... thank goodness they don't

 

[pvb]

You don't get these things in an old style boat - you sit there, in something akin to a large bathtub, knees inches apart, staring at each other in 2 regimented rows.

This is what people dream about ....

... so of course it's important.

Yes, Bavaria know the market well!

 

[Carib]

Adequate outdoor lounging space is important, but the requirement for an exceptionally large cockpit is going to kill a lot of otherwise viable choices - most of the OP's list of things he liked about the Malo don't really overlap with the type of broad-sterned, slab-sided monstrosity boat highlighted above.

 

[Chae_73]

c-yachts 1250cc has a decent looking table in the cockpit. Might push the budget a bit:

C-Yacht 1250i | Center Cockpit Yacht | Dutch quality

 

[geem]

Of course it is .... being sociable is a big part of cruising for many people ... even blue water sailors spend an awful lot of time at anchor.

No point in being in warm sunshine with an enclosed cockpit, cut in half by the main sheet traveller, and only big enough to seat 4 (with interlocking knees). If it wasn't an important criteria then we'd see modern boats with much shorter cockpits and more volume below .... but we don't.

Yachting is a lifestyle choice for the well heeled, and people like lounging around, room to sunbath, with a swim platform, swim ladder and fresh water shower - big table, lots of space, fridge in the cockpit and preferably with a BBQ/Sink combo on the stern too - think fully equipped patio with sea view - or modern Mobo.

You don't get these things in an old style boat - you sit there, in something akin to a large bathtub, knees inches apart, staring at each other in 2 regimented rows.

This is what people dream about ....

View attachment 100051

View attachment 100052

... so of course it's important.

Haha, that might be what you dream about! Looks like my worst nightmare?
I much prefer the OPs choice of Malo 42.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

On a more serious note ... there seems to be a wide difference of opinions between the various people looking for the OPs boat.

I hate to say this but, it's probably going to have to end up as a compromise, and I have a feeling the OP is dreaming of what could be rather than focusing on what is.

Why buy a "forever boat" now? .... will the group even be the same if and when you decide to venture further afield? Buying an old boat now means it will be even older when you come to set off.

The most important thing IMO is to maintain the families interest and enthusiasm for boats - if you take them coastal cruising and fair-weather sailing in a blue water boat, then, as you have already noticed, there will be dissenters - this may lead to fewer and fewer trips together.

Your family probably expect a lot more space from a bigger more expensive boat - it might not make sense investing all that money in a slightly more spacious, but seaworthy boat ... just to have them sitting squashed in the cockpit on a beautiful summers day, watching your neighbours sunbathing in a massive cockpit, or sitting on the bathing platform with a BBQ going, dipping their toes in the water and sipping G&T - Your skeg hung rudder and deep safe cockpit are of no discernible benefit to your crew whatsoever.

You will also be surprised at how capable a modern 40ft production boat actually is - the dinghy sailor will love the performance, the entertainer will love the space, and for that kind of money you can buy an almost new boat where everything works, is spotlessly clean, and still has years of life left in it - what's not to like?

I went through the process - like you, I was set on getting a seaworthy, quality boat when I bought a decade ago - I ended up with a bog standard AWB for similar reasons to your crew - we bought her because we wanted all the modern conveniences, the space, the private cabins, the swim platform with shower etc. etc. - without the massive maintenance overhead of a 30 year old engine, electrical system, deck hardware, leaks, and general wear and tear associated with older boats.

The only thing you need to overcome is being able to tell people you have a Bavaria instead of a Malo, and afterwards, while your status in sailing forums might plummet to rock bottom as the "real" sailors make jokes about a keel incident from 15 years ago, or about your soap dish of a boat - you can be certain their wives, girlfriends and kids would rather spend the weekend at home.

Once you have got over that, you will discover the reality of owning a nice smelling, clean, efficient and highly capable modern boat. The biggest critics of my choice of boat changed their minds once they had spent a few weeks aboard - surprised that it was much more capable than they had been lead to believe.

To my surprise, the boat, which is only a Bavaria 36 from 1999 has been a joy to own - we have had so much fun in her and I am certain, if I'd bought something without the space and mod-cons - I'd be a solo sailor by now.

 

[doug748]

"* The entertainer who wants to be able to dine outside and sleep in a fabulous cabin
* An ex-dinghy racer who doesn't like hanging around
* Me who just wants something that has a safe cockpit, is built like a tank and that will take care of her crew in all weathers."




A really tough set of compromises there.

If you don't watch it you will end up with something/anything that covers point 1 really well and scrapes by point 2 and 3 with a borderline fail. Even worse as you are intending to be UK based, at least in the short term. There is nothing sadder than a boat designed for the Med anchored up Pyfleet Creek in October, with a pair of muddy wellies hanging off the back.
This is a diplomatic problem you may have to play a deep game with finesse and skill, good luck.

My only practical suggestion is to perhaps have a word with John Rodriguez who knows this market very well indeed:

Cruising & Blue Water Yacht Brokerage - UK based ABYA Yacht Broker

He posts on here and may even be along to chip in.

.