D
Deleted member 36384
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I think A1GSS means when he was 20 years old.
Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?
- Thread starter dune16
- Start date
I think A1GSS means when he was 20 years old.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I have actually got 24 control lines in the cockpit but i will not bore you with the list
Surprised you do not have any foresail sheets !!
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Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
I did. Int 14s and Fireballs. Now 61. Dinghy days are past thank goodness.
eddystone
Well-Known Member
Lots of different opinions on "must haves" here for solo sailing; personally I think the only really essential an autopilot of some form. The real issues in solo sailing are when the workload gets out of hand, usually mooring situations but also when things go wrong as they often do. Also its probably best not to have too paranoid a personality. I occasionally put a splash of diesel into my tank of biocide and frequently reread the articles John Goode wrote for PBO on handling under sail i.e. when the engine fails.
I also think size matters - I wouldnt like to singlehand anything bigger than my Sadler 32 which is not only a lot smaller than your intended boat but also has less windage and lower freeboard both significant for mooring. Duncan Well's advice was you need to be pretty agile to moor over 35ft.
Do you really need such a big boat if the family only come occasionally?
I also think size matters - I wouldnt like to singlehand anything bigger than my Sadler 32 which is not only a lot smaller than your intended boat but also has less windage and lower freeboard both significant for mooring. Duncan Well's advice was you need to be pretty agile to moor over 35ft.
Do you really need such a big boat if the family only come occasionally?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
it is not good to compare sizes with older style boats. The whole drive with modern boats has been to make them easy to handle because the market is partly charter where inevitably they will be used by inexperienced people and the "grey" market that wants the size for the accommodation but does not want the hassle of sailing a boat that needs either a lot of active sailing or has heavy gear.
So whereas a 40 footer of 40 years ago would probably have a ketch rig to keep sail sizes down, a long keel with the attendant close quarters handling, cramped accommodation, heel a lot under sail, have a manual windlass if any. You can see where the developments in design and gear have gone and it it now quite normal for couples well past the flush of youth to happily cruise in boats up to 50'. To do so you do not need to go through the ladder of starting with dinghies, moving up to a small keel boat, then a 30' cruiser racer etc. Boats are now consumer products designed to capture those that have the money and perhaps more importantly the life experience and motivation to quickly learn how to use them.
So whereas a 40 footer of 40 years ago would probably have a ketch rig to keep sail sizes down, a long keel with the attendant close quarters handling, cramped accommodation, heel a lot under sail, have a manual windlass if any. You can see where the developments in design and gear have gone and it it now quite normal for couples well past the flush of youth to happily cruise in boats up to 50'. To do so you do not need to go through the ladder of starting with dinghies, moving up to a small keel boat, then a 30' cruiser racer etc. Boats are now consumer products designed to capture those that have the money and perhaps more importantly the life experience and motivation to quickly learn how to use them.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Several good points in there. Although i'm not new to boats my current boat is my first sail boat. I'm too long in the tooth to want to start with a dinghy and jumped in with a Westerly discus. Some lines lead to the cockpit and i'd like to move a couple more but i plan to leave the slab reefing at the mast. Thus far i haven't had any problems single handing the boat, but have only been out in moderate weather and for short distances. She does have an autopilot and electric windlass. No bow thruster, but after having a single engined motorboat with a lot of windage, no keel and no autopilot she seems very well mannered in the marina.
pvb
Well-Known Member
You wouldn't be in that position - most in-mast furling systems are incapable of having riding turns.
pagoda
Well-Known Member
They don't quite intrude into the cockpit ;-) I was thinking about coach roof jammers mainly.
On the 409 the sheet winches are just in front of the wheel(s) - I did not find that the handiest arrangement as you needed to use the winch for the mainsheet as well. You can leave the mainsheet in a jammer and wind on the genoa sheet, but it's a bit of a pest.
dune16
Well-Known Member
This is how I feel too. While some people will say it's crazy jumping straight in with such a large boat (I am re-considering the 389 alongside the 419 now, so a little smaller) I do feel confident that with the right training and not going straight out "solo" after CC / Day Skipper I will be fine. Marina berthing has been my concern from the outset but practice makes perfect.... and plenty of fenders
doug748
Well-Known Member
It's crazy jumping straight in with such a large boat.
I wish you well but I would not rush into anything.
pvb
Well-Known Member
It's not necessarily crazy, but I have a slight worry about the OP's apparent dependance on CC/DS qualifications, which I don't perhaps value as highly as he seems to.
dune16
Well-Known Member
CC/DS is merely a starting point (although hopefully a good one). I will also be paying an experienced skipper to come out with me until I feel completely confident to go it alone. I certainly do not think CC/DS is the start and the end of my learning.....
pagoda
Well-Known Member
It's got little to do with RYA targets. It has a lot to do with getting comfortable with a large boat in less than comfortable situations. You know exactly what is meant - we have all been there a few times! Modern craft are well made , but suffer a lot , more from windage- more than previous generations of craft. Working round that issue without a lot of practice involves a few bumps and dings. I watch people motoring around pontoons at Mach 3 (?) and wince. Nothing matters but time at the helm in these circumstances.
RYA null point on this issue?
dune16
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say I'm rushing, but still researching.
I am sure I won't be the first and certainly won't be the last and I fully intend on making a success of it.
pagoda
Well-Known Member
Good on you , I would still be leery of a new 409 in close quarters (8000NM later !)
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Sensible approach. Make sure you go to a reputable sea school that limits student numbers to 4; in my opinion a ratio of 5:1 is too high. Also, some schools offer a weekend's tuition for boat handling under power. I had a long break from sailing and went on such a course when I returned (Scot Sail at Largs Yacht Haven, Scotland) and it was money well spent.
I have the following books on boat handling which are excellent for establishing the principles. I would advise that the first two you should read before you go on a course: -
Stress Free Sailing, Single and Short Handed Techniques, Duncan Wells (Very Good)
Manoeuvring At Close Quarters Under Power, Bill Johnson, (Good)
Boat Handling Under Sail and Power, Anderson and Cunliffe (Ok)
If you can obtain the 3 x Part PBO Handling Under Power, Goode and Everitt, it is well worth it reading (from 1995 and 1996). They are out of print and Part 1 is the one that never appears to be available, Parts 2 and 3 some times come up on eBay or in online book shops.
mrming
Well-Known Member
Some people seem to take very well to shunting a big boat around under engine and I don't think it's unreasonable for the OP to pick that up fairly quickly.
There are lots of people where I sail who can step off their big boat onto the pontoon, single handed with no drama no matter what the wind or tide is doing. They always seem to use a lot of throttle.
I started racing dinghies age 8. 30 years later I can sail my small yacht sail fast but I don't excel on boat handling. Parking a 40 footer in a tight marina berth with a cross-wind would make me sweat a bit!
There are lots of people where I sail who can step off their big boat onto the pontoon, single handed with no drama no matter what the wind or tide is doing. They always seem to use a lot of throttle.
I started racing dinghies age 8. 30 years later I can sail my small yacht sail fast but I don't excel on boat handling. Parking a 40 footer in a tight marina berth with a cross-wind would make me sweat a bit!
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
+1 for that. I keep this by my bed and dip into it most nights for a few minutes, it's excellent.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't take any notice of such advice - which usually comes from people who have come into sailing through a particular route and cannot imagine that there are other ways of learning to enjoy sailing.
As I suggested earlier modern boats are designed for people who want ease of handling, recognising that buyers are no longer willing to put up with heavy, old fashioned boats. Sailing is no longer an endurance sport where hardship is part of it.
If you use a commercial sailing school you will inevitably learn to sail in a boat similar to the type you are thinking about. Same if you charter a boat to gain experience on your own. Therefore you will have no experience of small boats to cloud your view of handling a larger one.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't take any notice of such advice - which usually comes from people who have come into sailing through a particular route and cannot imagine that there are other ways of learning to enjoy sailing.
As I suggested earlier modern boats are designed for people who want ease of handling, recognising that buyers are no longer willing to put up with heavy, old fashioned boats. Sailing is no longer an endurance sport where hardship is part of it.
If you use a commercial sailing school you will inevitably learn to sail in a boat similar to the type you are thinking about. Same if you charter a boat to gain experience on your own. Therefore you will have no experience of small boats to cloud your view of handling a larger one.
