Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

[doug748]

Hearken to all views, it is very easy to accept the advice we want to hear. There is a clique on this forum that turns every question into a panegyric on the merits of the boat they own. Often for no better reason than it is "new and improved".

Try to ignore the white noise.

You seem to be well switched on to the possibility of buying the wrong boat dune, I guess you have to be when spending a quarter of a million plus on your choice.

However, ask yourself if the family are having an undue influence on your pick; non sailors can be carried away by the look of the thing and, of course, have no idea of the practical challenges. You say they would be very willing passengers, the problems occur if they actually get a bit bored by the reality of sailing after a few trips. You are left to either get on with it or change your boat. With the Pound where it is, the losses would be very large.

There is no doubt that handling the 41 footer is not a problem, you can learn that, it is done. The drawbacks of the type have already been aired, they are not insurmountable. Taking her off her own mooring and going in to places you know can be mastered.
Limitations start to show a few years down the line when you venture further afield and it is blowing hard and the marina may be full and you are not even sure if there is room, and the finger may be 20ft long and it could be port or starboard and the tide is running and the pontoons look very close together on the map and it is getting dark and should you stay out all night or chance it?

Sometimes I think a larger boat would be nice but handiness is a great virtue, lots of bigger boats choose not to sail because it is all too much of a fag.

There. Have a think in that light, if you still want the boat you want, great.

 

[lpdsn]

Once you get your DS try chartering a few times. It should be easy to find boats of the type you're interested in.

It'll give you the chance to try out different boats and different sailing areas. If you find bigger boat sailing doesn't work for your family or for you you can walk away having only spent a few thousand with time to rethink your plan.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I'm surprised no one has questioned jumping from a dinghy to a 41'er after a couple of courses. I sailed a keel boat for a year or so before buying a small cruiser. It's no marina queen and a tight fit for four, but I can handle it on my own in close quarters without a bow thruster. Simple is as simple does. Having had a roller Genoa jam up with a rolling turn on the drum, I'd not want to be in that position with an in-mast system. Stack-pack and slab reefing is what I have and I've deliberately not had it run to the cockpit as there were just too many pulleys needed to feed the lines. OK when brand new, but they get tight with age.

As I grow older, I value "small" but that's personal. Dom sails a big boat shorthanded and I admire his boat handling, but they both know what they're doing. I'd not think of going that big for a first boat though.

Absolutely, a friend bought a 379 about 18 months ago, and all the issues in the thread mean that the boat has probably done less than 20 hours, and includes at least a big insurance claim in a marina and several prangs, and near prangs... consequently he's scared himself off..

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Absolutely, a friend bought a 379 about 18 months ago, and all the issues in the thread mean that the boat has probably done less than 20 hours, and includes at least a big insurance claim in a marina and several prangs, and near prangs... consequently he's scared himself off..

But... has he done what the OP has proposed ie getting some own-boat tuition from a pro until he's confident?

 

[KellysEye]

>In mast furling

Is good for single handing but in mast furling has a flat sail so is less powerful than a traditional sail thus it is slower. We found that out in Antigua Sailing Week where we had chartered a Benneteau 50 with in mast furling, every other boat with a traditional sail went past us.

 

[pvb]

>In mast furling

In mast furling has a flat sail so is less powerful than a traditional sail thus it is slower. We found that out in Antigua Sailing Week where we had chartered a Benneteau 50 with in mast furling, every other boat with a traditional sail went past us.

But normal cruising isn't a race! It's about enjoying the experience, ideally with minimum effort, hence the popularity of in-mast.

 

[KellysEye]

>In mast furling

In mast furling is good for single handing but has a flat sail so is less powerful than a traditional sail thus it is slower. We found that out in Antigua Sailing Week where we had chartered a Benneteau 50 with in mast furling, every other boat with a traditional sail went past us.

 

[pvb]

???

 

[dune16]

But... has he done what the OP has proposed ie getting some own-boat tuition from a pro until he's confident?

Yes, at no point did I suggest I would do "a couple of courses" and then think I know it all and sail off into the sunset solo. I will be paying an experienced skipper to come out with me for however long it takes before I get fully comfortable with all aspects.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

^ Sensible approach I think.

 

[ex-Gladys]

But... has he done what the OP has proposed ie getting some own-boat tuition from a pro until he's confident?

Yes he has, but that hasn't yet got him into a position where he's confident to take the boat out without experienced assistance. Not helped by it being a shoal keel, twin rudder job

 

[Terra-Loon]

When I bought my boat, albeit a 32 footer, I had very limited sailing experience restricted to a few holidays with included use of a Hobie Cat.

We then had just one full day of instruction on our own boat and that was enough to give me us confidence to get out on the water and practice on points of sail and hoving-to etc. We practiced mooring and my wife took responsibility for the lines when returning to the pontoon. Working out our mooring game plan and having defined roles ensured that we understood what we were doing and thought ahead about the various scenarios that we might encounter.

Oddly enough, we had more trouble picking up a mooring at a buoy than at a pontoon, but then we practiced that on fewer occasions.

The biggest boat I have moored at a pontoon was 36 feet and I felt considerably more challenging.

 

[smartmove2014]

Yes, I've already been advised again twin rudders with regards to manoeuvring in the marina. Whether I go for a 389 (which i am beginning to favour) or 419 it will be fin keel and single rudder.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Yes, I've already been advised again twin rudders with regards to manoeuvring in the marina. Whether I go for a 389 (which i am beginning to favour) or 419 it will be fin keel and single rudder.

I don't know about the 419 but the saildrive is a long way forward, which doesn't help with the ability to utilise all the tools available, including prop kick

 

[danstanford]

I don't know about the 419 but the saildrive is a long way forward, which doesn't help with the ability to utilise all the tools available, including prop kick

I, too, have had this thought. It seems even more important to have prop wash for standing turns and for alignment when backing on my current 30'er than it did on my previous 38'er. I cannot imagine being without it and it seems all the twin rudder boats would be completely without it. Our slip for the last two years has been in a small basin with a strong cross breeze off the finger pier and into our slipmate. No wind is easy as pie but I need propwash every time to get the alignment I want when it is windy across the slip.

Can anyone with a twin rudder boat comment?
Dan

 

[Yngmar]

Yes, twin rudders don't have the ability to direct propwash with the rudder and it sucks. A bowthruster does not fully compensate for this. Although if you're berthing near me, the bowthruster sound will usually make me poke my head out of the hatch and help you with the lines if I'm not doing anything uninterruptible

The distance between saildrive and rudder is a non-issue. You quickly get used to the fact that it takes about a second for the propwash to arrive at the rudder and plan for it. I don't even have to think about it anymore. Doesn't stop my ability to do standing turns in a marina (saildrive, single spade rudder, no thrusters).

 

[[3889]]

Agree twin rudders detract from close quarter handling.
Gladys referred to prop kick, not wash, which is affected by the distance between prop and stern.
For what it's worth, I've single handed a Jeanneau 36i without a thruster, over 3 years visiting 50+ marinas and don't find berthing an issue. A 419 with a thruster or better still 360 docking, should be no problem after the sort of training the OP has in mind.

 

[eddystone]

Why not just get the Janneau agent to charter you a the same boat you are contemplating buying for a couple of days? The cost would be nothing compared to the loss from having to sell an unsuitable boat. A women I know has just bought a Hanse 455 for a solo 2 year RTW trip but she didn't commit to purchase until she had tried it out sufficiently to know she could handle it(admiitedly she is a sailing instructor/YM etc).

 

[Tranona]

Why not just get the Janneau agent to charter you a the same boat you are contemplating buying for a couple of days? The cost would be nothing compared to the loss from having to sell an unsuitable boat. A women I know has just bought a Hanse 455 for a solo 2 year RTW trip but she didn't commit to purchase until she had tried it out sufficiently to know she could handle it(admiitedly she is a sailing instructor/YM etc).

Already suggested by several people that he charters boats of that type to check out both whether he can handle them and whether his family like the idea.

The impetus to buy this type of boat often comes from having chartered one and realise how easy they can be to handle and what great boats they are, if you can afford it. Exactly how I came to buy a similar size boat.

If your sailing experience is mostly in this size of boat, then owning one is not daunting. Perhaps it is people who have gone the "traditional" way of starting small and working up that have difficulty in accepting that a 40' boat is possible for short and single handed sailing.

 

[danstanford]

Yes, twin rudders don't have the ability to direct propwash with the rudder and it sucks. A bowthruster does not fully compensate for this. Although if you're berthing near me, the bowthruster sound will usually make me poke my head out of the hatch and help you with the lines if I'm not doing anything uninterruptible

The distance between saildrive and rudder is a non-issue. You quickly get used to the fact that it takes about a second for the propwash to arrive at the rudder and plan for it. I don't even have to think about it anymore. Doesn't stop my ability to do standing turns in a marina (saildrive, single spade rudder, no thrusters).

Yngmar, I am glad to hear the sail drive doesn't significantly hinder the prop wash effect. My slip mate has a sail drive and complains that it causes him the problems he has getting into the slip. I have been quite surprised at the lack of attention paid to the twin rudder thing as marina manoeuvering is the biggest stress I hear listed by sailors and I would be reluctant to buy a boat that hurt my ability to do this effectively. My experience on the two inboard sailboats (both shaft not saildrive)I have owned make prop wash and prop walk an integral part of tight quarters work. I guess until I can afford one of these fancy thruster systems I will stick with a single rudder and shaft drive with a caveat that a fantastic boat having sail drive could be looked at. I do know I don't want my stomach in knots contemplating berthing!
Dan