Should Marinas require some sort of user ability

[DFL1010]

I don't know but they have known for a very long time who is crashing and what their qualifications are. Maybe they already know that qualified people are as likely to crash as unqualified. Maybe they already have a more efficient scheme in place called premium calculation which negates those concerns. After all they don't care who crashes as long as they come out on top.

Citation needed.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

That's why Neptune, great God of the sea, invented the RYA.

I think I deserve an earner for starting this thread.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

My first thought on seeing the thread title was that someone had bumped your boat and you were seething with righteous indignation.

That would be true to my makeup and personality but not on this occasion.

Some years ago. a friend in the same mariner reported that someone struck my boat with some force whilst parking. He did not report the incident. Turned out that he was a solicitor.

Perhaps the saddest incident experienced was a young lady reversing from the pontoon opposite me. She put the boat in reverse which seemed at full throttle. She described a half circle , missed me by about a foot and careered full blast into a yacht opposite. She then engaged forward, again at full throttle , and ploughed straight into a parked power boat. The poor woman was still crying an hour and a half later.

 

[Poignard]

That would be true to my makeup and personality but not on this occasion.

Some years ago. a friend in the same mariner reported that someone struck my boat with some force whilst parking. He did not report the incident. Turned out that he was a solicitor.

Perhaps the saddest incident experienced was a young lady reversing from the pontoon opposite me. She put the boat in reverse which seemed at full throttle. She described a half circle , missed me by about a foot and careered full blast into a yacht opposite. She then engaged forward, again at full throttle , and ploughed straight into a parked power boat. The poor woman was still crying an hour and a half later.

I think the best thing to do as soon as you get into a marina is to clear off ashore for the day! Much better for the nerves. ?

 

[Laysula]

I still don'l understand why someone who has spent several thousand and often rens of thousand on a boat is so reluctant to spend another couple of hundred on a sea school skipper for a day or even half a day just to learn how to manoeuvre their boat in a marina.. So many don't seem to have a clue and think it's just like driving a car. That little bit of tuition would add so much enjoyment and take away so much stress at the beginning and end of each trip.

 

[Helidan]

We have two busy marinas, never really hear of any incidents. Out in the harbour though - different story. No consideration for COLREGS etc.

 

[steveeasy]

Three experienced sailors turned up at the yard where I keep my boat. They had just had a full refit of their classic sailing boat. Must have cost quite a few thousands. Anyway they untied the lines and instantly were swept accross and pinned to another boat.
My point is they where very capable sailors but did not know the currents. My second point is the boat they hit should not even have been there. The marina when it got planning consent was not permitted to use that area due to the navigational risks. A planning condition. I’ve watched as multiple incidents have occurred at the same spot.
It’s easy to criticise others but the fact is it takes time to learn and understand your own patch.

Steveeasy

 

[penfold]

How long before insurance companies decide they want a minimum training certification from an accountable organisation?

They won't, mandatory training/qualification doesn't make boating safer in the places that do require it.

 

[jamie N]

Fortunately, in a marina someone's incompetence, or plain bad luck, is very unlikely to cause physical damage to a human being, the rest is just a bit of polish/epoxy or whatever; no big deal.
A couple of caveats to that of course; if they crash into a classic varnished Folkboat, it's a different matter, and that I've suffered through my own incompetence bad luck more than many!

 

[DFL1010]

They won't, mandatory training/qualification doesn't make boating safer in the places that do require it.

Are there any decent studies on the topic? Genuinely curious.

 

[Stemar]

One issue is that you can be entirely competent on your own boat, then you get on another type and, oh dear - all that knowledge is not just useless, it's counterproductive.

I had a 24 ft cruiser for years. she was well sorted and I know what she'd do ahead and astern - try and screw me in the latter case; I was always so jealous of skippers who'd just drive out astern! Then I got a cat. The rudders don't work until I'm doing a couple of knots, visibility from the helm is less than stellar and she takes up a lot more room. My first few attempts were unimpressive - or maybe impressive, depending on your point of view.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I doubt any of us who muck about on the water can claim a 100% no failure rate at some point,
Today after we had reached our mooring and tied up, 3 other boats, all skippered and crewed by experienced sailors had to have second or third tries at getting on to their moorings, the wind was just in that awkward direction.
Yesterday it was my turn and thé pick up line from the neighbouring mooring managed to slip under our rudder, so w had to disentangle before we could get our for and aft moorings on, first time this has happened in 24 years on this mooring with two different boats.
So even experienced, and very competent sailors can occasionally foul up, and as Poignard comments in #3 do we really want any more unenforceable rules?

 

[Greemble]

Citation needed.

"Maybe..."
Speculation - No citation required

 

[DFL1010]

"Maybe..."
Speculation - No citation required

Disagree. The speculation is about whether or not they know this 'fact'.
To me, the quoted statement has the same meaning as this statement: "Qualified people are as likely to crash as unqualified people. Maybe they know this".

 

[Greemble]

Disagree. The speculation is about whether or not they know this 'fact'.
To me, the quoted statement has the same meaning as this statement: "Qualified people are as likely to crash as unqualified people. Maybe they know this".

"Maybe they know this for a fact, maybe they don't know if this is a fact at all."

By the use of the term "maybe", ridgy was clearly wondering if there is any research or stats to show if it is a fact or not. A citation is not required when speculating if there is any research on the matter.
If there was a citation to verifiable research, there would be no need for "maybe" as the writer would know whether or not if it is a fact.

A citation is indeed required to know, but unless an insurance underwriter comes forward with the results of many years of claims, we will not know if it is true - or not. Cleary ridgy doesn't know if there is any research, therefore cannot provide a citation.

 

[ridgy]

P

Disagree. The speculation is about whether or not they know this 'fact'.
To me, the quoted statement has the same meaning as this statement: "Qualified people are as likely to crash as unqualified people. Maybe they know this".

Oh behave...fancy that, purposefully misquoting me to suit your own purpose.
Clearly I was suggesting that insurance companies may have real life information that stops them petitioning for legislation, or maybe the differences are too small either way.
Thanks to Greemble for keeping the truth alive.
Personally I have nearly every RYA qualification but I like that it is not enforced.

 

[WindyWindyWindy]

That would be true to my makeup and personality but not on this occasion.

Some years ago. a friend in the same mariner reported that someone struck my boat with some force whilst parking. He did not report the incident. Turned out that he was a solicitor.

Perhaps the saddest incident experienced was a young lady reversing from the pontoon opposite me. She put the boat in reverse which seemed at full throttle. She described a half circle , missed me by about a foot and careered full blast into a yacht opposite. She then engaged forward, again at full throttle , and ploughed straight into a parked power boat. The poor woman was still crying an hour and a half later.

I had an instructor who suggested that if it all went tits up in a marina, that the best thing to do was to turn everything off, go below and stick the kettle on and let the other buggers sort it out.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We cruising the Netherlands at this time and anyone who think marina berth in the UK are tight need to come here ,
Some marinas we been in the only way in or out is to push off the other boat opposite bow or stern .
Most boat here sailing or motor boat now have bow thruster, I did wonder why till we visit the marinas.
Some quick thinking is required.

 

[xyachtdave]

I used to be involved with our yacht club at a level where new members would be pointed in my direction, for help getting to know the club and offer help and advise if needed.

It was quite a regular occurrence for a couple with zero experience to buy a 10 metre plus boat and arrive on a lorry or with delivery skipper. Fair play to them, if they're practically minded and keen, they'll learn the ropes quickly.

I'd usually suggest a day of pontoon bashing own boat tuition with the local sailing school, Elite Sailing, as the parking of the new boat is causing the most anxiety, they can get that bit sorted in a day and get the hang of the sailing once they're out and about.

I don't think anybody ever did this, which is nuts really, you've got many multiples of £10k for your new boat but not got the £300 for training that will make the whole experience much more pleasurable.

Sadly many sold up or disappeared within a year after a couple of frightening moments, which with a little help at the start could probably have been avoided.

 

[Adios]

She put the boat in reverse which seemed at full throttle. She described a half circle , missed me by about a foot and careered full blast into a yacht opposite. She then engaged forward, again at full throttle , and ploughed straight into a parked power boat.

The full throttle over corrections panic seems a common newbie thing, seen it a few times. A friend bought a 40ft steel Van de Stadt yacht as his first boat and in a marina he did the full forward to reverse to forward panic thing trying to correct each over correction. I grabbed the throttle and put in neutral to see what the boat was actually doing before giving it a bit of throttle to correct it. He was literally shaking. A few months later I went out with him again and he was totally over it. Sensibly he'd found some quiet pontoons and did loads of practice. People who don't practice it instead live with a dread of berthing for ages. Probably the sensible thing a marina should do, though it would require an old fashioned personal interest in their customers, is watch the new person berthing when they come in and if they look a bit unsure offer to spend some time doing maneuvers with them. Doesn't need to be as official as having a RYA Berthing Master certificate.

Trying to get my boats to turn to port in reverse I've a few times given it a blast of full reverse in tight spaces and I noticed the people on other boats spit their drinks out and run to grab a fender. "Its happening again!" they think. Just the sound of full throttle is very triggering in marinas.