Should Marinas require some sort of user ability

[Adios]

We cruising the Netherlands at this time and anyone who think marina berth in the UK are tight need to come here ,
Some marinas we been in the only way in or out is to push off the other boat opposite bow or stern .
Most boat here sailing or motor boat now have bow thruster, I did wonder why till we visit the marinas.
Some quick thinking is required.

There's quite a variety of things to challenge you on the continent. Some places have made it practically impossible to berth single handed. Locals will have their methods though. For one place I had to buy a big hook thing like a shepherds crook and then annoyingly never needed it anywhere else. By comparison the UKs marinas are all quite easy and samey.

 

[DipperToo]

I still don'l understand why someone who has spent several thousand and often tens of thousand on a boat is so reluctant to spend another couple of hundred on a sea school skipper for a day or even half a day just to learn how to manoeuvre their boat in a marina.. So many don't seem to have a clue and think it's just like driving a car. That little bit of tuition would add so much enjoyment and take away so much stress at the beginning and end of each trip.

Hopefully not too much of thread drift, but I also think that some 'good manners' are required. Errors and misjudgements can happen to anyone. However, it does not take much effort to report the 'event' in case of damage to other boats. I have had one strong denial of a boat hitting me (despite several witnesses) and the offender simply carried on with his departure. Similarly my pushpit and aerials were damaged with all my 6 fenders bunched together between the stanchions. Is a simple note and apology too much to ask for these days?

 

[johnalison]

In spite of a good few years of practice, I still find finger pontoons the hardest to get right. I don’t think that I worried much when we had a Sadler 29, with a shaft prop and rudder that did almost 90 degrees, but I now have a saildrive and a rudder that is limited to about forty degrees. I have a little prop walk, that either helps or hinders, but the shallow fin, 1.5m, means that the boat drifts sideways a little as it turns, and I either judge this correctly or I don’t. It Is hard to get a box mooring wrong when entering, once one has learned how to manage the lines, and I always started to relax once I’d got to the Baltic for this reason.

 

[UK-WOOZY]

when i joined Chatham, i was new to the lock and berths as had been on a swing mooring for 10+ years, only using marina's on the odd visit to St Kats, Limehouse. So instead of paying a lot for a professional to show me the ropes i put a shout out on the berth holders facebook group and had a number of people offering their time for free, the person I chose was fabulous, called Rupert and gave me two whole days of tuition on my boat going on and off my berth and others, stern to and bow to, port and startboard and then a day with the lock. It definitely gave me the confidence to do it all on my own after.

 

[Robin]

When our then YC built a marina the cruising section arranged a series of own boat tution group classes in marina handling, with each class with several club members on board having a pro instructor from a wellknown sea school on board supervising. We had launched just the day before and our pristine boat after it's winter refurb was in it's new berth when the days class crashed into it crushing the stern ladder which they then flatly denied had been them until one whisteleblower broke ranks. The club footed the repair bill as a 'gesture' butthereal damage to me was the denials denials denials from club mates. With the lower ladder mounting bolts bein below the waterline, repairs had to wait until next liftout so we sailed a season with a buckled ladder on full display. I though seriously about hanging a sign off the ladder saying 'damage courtesy of Southern Sailing'.

 

[xyachtdave]

I was leaving a marina on a mates boat in Turkey when a small inflatable rib appears and motored straight into our bow, attempting to assist with a sort of budget bow thruster.

I wasn’t aware this was a rule and the marina insisted on this boat ‘helping’ for entering and leaving, so I legged it up the front of the boat and starting shouting at him to stop, you crazy fool etc!

 

[Robin]

We lived on a boat in Florida and our home marina would send berthing assistants to meet and greet. Nice as these mini shorted dolly burds were they had no idea and woul take a line and just hold it. 'put it on that cleat requests' were totally ignored and they thought they could hold, even pull a 25 ton trawler with 500hp. they did however expect a hefty tip each. We soon learned to arrive unannounced.

 

[Kukri]

Genuine VHF conversation, September 2020:

“W…Marina, this is yacht Kukri, booked onto B hammerhead. We have no engine. Can your launch meet us? »

“Kukri, you can sail onto the hammerhead”

“W… Marina, we weigh 23 tons. It’s your marina…”

“Kukri, launch will meet you!”

(no charge, contribution to beer fund made)

 

[Never Grumble]

Hopefully not too much of thread drift, but I also think that some 'good manners' are required. Errors and misjudgements can happen to anyone. However, it does not take much effort to report the 'event' in case of damage to other boats. I have had one strong denial of a boat hitting me (despite several witnesses) and the offender simply carried on with his departure. Similarly my pushpit and aerials were damaged with all my 6 fenders bunched together between the stanchions. Is a simple note and apology too much to ask for these days?

I remember the first time of doing the walk of shame to the marina office to advise I had touched the neighbouring boat on departure. I also let someone know on another time that I had very gently clipped one of their stanchions, they thanks me but said there was no damage and not to worry. But the guy (ass hole) who left black marks down the side of my boat didn't.

 

[Kukri]

In one of FB Cooke’s books he remarks that before WW2 the moorings at Burnham on Crouch were laid very close together, many boats had no engines, and it was the “done thing” to set out with a few business cards in envelopes, each weighted with a coin, in one’s pocket. If you clipped another boat you chucked your card on board the victim…

 

[Robin]

Genuine VHF conversation, September 2020:

“W…Marina, this is yacht Kukri, booked onto B hammerhead. We have no engine. Can your launch meet us? »

“Kukri, you can sail onto the hammerhead”

“W… Marina, we weigh 23 tons. It’s your marina…”

“Kukri, launch will meet you!”

(no charge, contribution to beer fund made)

Fred drift but also in florida we had a bridhe operator refuse to lift to let us past saying we had plento of headroom to go under, contrary to their own clearance guage. I just replied 'OK if you can assure me your insurance is right up to date, here goes...' The bridge lifted immediately.

 

[benjenbav]

One issue is that you can be entirely competent on your own boat, then you get on another type and, oh dear - all that knowledge is not just useless, it's counterproductive.

I had a 24 ft cruiser for years. she was well sorted and I know what she'd do ahead and astern - try and screw me in the latter case; I was always so jealous of skippers who'd just drive out astern! Then I got a cat. The rudders don't work until I'm doing a couple of knots, visibility from the helm is less than stellar and she takes up a lot more room. My first few attempts were unimpressive - or maybe impressive, depending on your point of view.

I'd been messing about on boats all my life. I still remember collecting a motor boat in Fowey and calling in to Weymouth for fuel en route to the Solent.

Perhaps I did approach the fuel dock rather cautiously, because the gnarly old sea dog on the pump remarked: "first time on a boat?"

But, as my docking manoeuvre was perfectly safe and entirely damage-free, I smiled and it was only privately that I hoped he'd: "awa' and bile yis heid"

 

[dune16]

Even though I have a pretty good feel for our current 44' boat I still find parking the most stressful bit of sailing. In the early days of boat ownership I used to start thinking over the process in my head about an hour away, my partner would always moan at me as she could see I was starting to sweat a little bit thinking about it! Now the stress is pretty much hidden and I haven't hit anything yet (touch wood!!). When I had my Jeanneau at SYH I did get an instructor to come onboard for the day to do pontoon bashing but even he was shocked out how badly a modern AWB blows off due to the high freeboard. He ended up using the bow thruster and agreed it was totally necessary on that boat. Our new berth in Sardinia is very tight but so far, no issues, I know how the boat behaves going astern and do rely heavily on the bow thruster, in only the calmest of days do I feel I could get in successfully without the thruster...

 

[Tranona]

Are there any decent studies on the topic? Genuinely curious.

Yes - in a negative sort of way. A number of studies have been carried out in the past comparing "safety" in boating in a number of different countries which generally showed no correlation between level of qualifications required and a whole range of safety indicators. Rather the opposite. The UK which is the only major country in the world that has no qualification requirements for leisure boating has the best safety record.

There are of course huge difficulties in collecting comparable data and comparing different boating environments - for example US and Australia are predominately power boat and UK and much of Europe sailing; reporting of incidents is a legal requirement in US whereas in UK and most of Europe there is no single source of reporting. However anybody who has boated outside the UK will have experienced the general lower level capability , particularly powerboats in many other countries. Insurers recognise this - my premium fell by 20% when I brought my boat back from the Med.

Do insurers recognise and grade risk? yes, but in a global way by identifying where claims occur and what type of boats are involved. Majority of claims are weather related so locality and type of mooring is a big determinant. Suspect marina collisions do not even rate as a distinct category - my insurer gives a 15% reduction for a marina berth. Are they interested in qualifications? yes if they are relevant to a specific type of use. My trip back from the Med had a supplement to cover the bit round the outside which was reduced because I had a qualified skipper on board. If you are looking for ocean passage insurance, qualifications and experience will influence not only premium but whether cover will be offered at all.

For general UK coastal waters Brest/Elbe claims are very small and for existing policyholders claims record is the key differentiator after location and type/value of boat.

 

[PhillM]

Going through the learning curve at the monent. After a decade + I knew what my old wooden boat would do in almost circumstances.

Dealing with an outboard and tiller which is forward of a decent sized lazerrette is a whole new world of pain. I will practice and tbh I need to! Meantime, I am being cautious and taking care it to go into places that require skills beyond what I have as yet developed.

 

[LittleSister]

 

[jaminb]

Approaching a berth at the Folley last week a lady shouted to keep clear as they had a long keel and no manoeuvrability. I don’t think she was expecting a reply of don’t worry I’m incompetent