Seagull remorse - does it exist?

[Greenheart]

None so blind as they who won't see...

...they don't produce any kind of serious pollution to the environment.

...how do Seagull owners cope? They obviously can't see well or they'd recognise the oily film that attends their boats...

...and they must be half-deaf, from using the damned things.

I think it's funny to see the sheer bloodymindedness in action here - people planning being wilfully irresponsible, deliberately using a system so primitive that it pollutes freely, just to irritate those who actually only dislike pollution, be it sound, air or water.

Perhaps when I float my dinghy (or orange-box as it will likely be) up rivers this year, I'll locate a yacht with a Seagull tender, and empty my vessel's head-compartment in their vicinity. It'll only be a bucket, but the Seagull owner won't mind, I'm sure...after all, a bucket is very traditional.

 

[dylanwinter]

None so blind as they who won't see...



...how do Seagull owners cope? They obviously can't see well or they'd recognise the oily film that attends their boats...

...and they must be half-deaf, from using the damned things.

I think it's funny to see the sheer bloodymindedness in action here - people planning being wilfully irresponsible, deliberately using a system so primitive that it pollutes freely, just to irritate those who actually only dislike pollution, be it sound, air or water.

Perhaps when I float my dinghy (or orange-box as it will likely be) up rivers this year, I'll locate a yacht with a Seagull tender, and empty my vessel's head-compartment in their vicinity. It'll only be a bucket, but the Seagull owner won't mind, I'm sure...after all, a bucket is very traditional.

Dan, Dan, Dan,

you will upset some of the nicest stubbornist most traditional blokes you could ever hope to meet

Dylan

 

[Greenheart]

...you will upset some of the nicest stubbornist most traditional blokes you could ever hope to meet.

Nice if those gents could be relayed onto the AWB vs MAB debates on the forum...where apparently, I'm a fervent traditionalist!

Just had a winner of an idea (actually, this thread's been running so long, I may have posted my idea months ago, or perhaps I read it here and now it's floating to the surface again, through the technicolor ooze)...how about a brand new Suzuki 4-stroke, cleverly disguised as a filthy, oil-slathering old British Seagull?

View attachment 28415

The seabirds would be grateful for a start.

 

[Murv]

I have asked for advice on a suitable alternative to mend my wicked ways a few posts up, but it's gone unanswered so far...

 

[dylanwinter]

I have asked for advice on a suitable alternative to mend my wicked ways a few posts up, but it's gone unanswered so far...

I love my air cooled honda

used to shove the 18 foot slug along at five knots

pushes Katie L at 4.5

Dylan

 

[Murv]

But how to obtain such a thing without causing more pollution than my trusty old 'gull will produce? that's the dilemma.
I'm quite serious by the way. If someone can show me the figures to demonstrate an environmentally friendlier way of running a replacement outboard than the pollution mine will produce in 500 miles then I'll do it.

 

[dylanwinter]

But how to obtain such a thing without causing more pollution than my trusty old 'gull will produce? that's the dilemma.
I'm quite serious by the way. If someone can show me the figures to demonstrate an environmentally friendlier way of running a replacement outboard than the pollution mine will produce in 500 miles then I'll do it.

point source, point source, point source

the bloody seagull is pissing oil straight into some of our most precious marine environments

for goodness sake how many times do I have to make the point and how often do people come up with the same old **** about the environmental impact of recycling and re-manufacturing

you would not piss in your own kitchen would you?

maybe you would

 

[Applescruffs]

Nothing wrong with a pair of oars.

Fnar.....Fnar !!!!

 

[Murv]

I'm sorry but that sort of closed mind attitude just beggars belief.
Just because you can see it, it makes it no better or worse than the belching CO2 that you can't see!
You really need to try and see the bigger picture...

As I say, if there is a definite, provable case for getting shot of mine, I'll do it. But I'm not doing it on the basis of a misguided rant.
Where is the evidence that the oil film a Seagull leaves behind is so destructive anyway?

 

[Applescruffs]

Where is the evidence that the oil film a Seagull leaves behind is so destructive anyway?[/QUOTE]

This guy may have a point.....

Let's think of all the tankers that have gone aground and spewed crude oil all over the place over the years ...Torry Canyon....Amico Cadiz...etc...terrible at the time ....but now? who would know it had ever happened?

And on a lighter note........

The Glow Worm Poem

I wish I was a glow worm,
A glow worm's never glum.
'Cos how can you be grumpy
When the sun shines out your bum!


Made me smile anyway !

 

[BruceDanforth]

You can get biodegradable 2 stroke oil easily enough.

three things

1/ it is about point source pollution in this river, this small patch where we keep our boats as opposed to the large scale diverse pollution.

2/pointing at the amount of pollution done by other people and organsiations across the planet as a justification for your own point source pollution in the small creek where you keep your boat is like a mugger pointing out that what he does is okay because he is not as bad as Hitler or Stalin. It really is like pissing on your own doorstep - sadly though the seagull users share their doorstep with lots of other sailors, crabs, fish and saltmarshes. It is like a bloke smoking in a room and then telling you to quit complaining because your car produces more pollution on the street than his cigarrette does in this room.

3/ it is such an easy win - modern four strokes are better and more economical - I have used both and they really, really are so much better and you can buy them very cheaply second hand

however, if you wish to continue splashing oil in the creeks because it

a/ it is traditional

b/the seagull is a good aesthetic fit with your pipe, your clinker built dinghy and besides you like the noise or the smell

c/you don't care about polluting the creeks and are therefore going to carry on regardless of the evidence of the point source pollution from two strokes


then that is is your right

but in my opinion it would be a slightly different world if you did the decent thing and hung the seagull on the wall

 

[Murv]

Love the poem!

 

[Greenheart]

You can get biodegradable 2 stroke oil easily enough.

Really? Properly biodegradable? Sounds good. Maybe they'll reintroduce two-strokes?

 

[Applescruffs]

Really? Properly biodegradable? Sounds good. Maybe they'll reintroduce two-strokes?

But you've still got around 75% petrol left in the mix.....and that ain't going anywhere soon.

 

[dylanwinter]

I'm sorry but that sort of closed mind attitude just beggars belief.
Just because you can see it, it makes it no better or worse than the belching CO2 that you can't see!
You really need to try and see the bigger picture...

As I say, if there is a definite, provable case for getting shot of mine, I'll do it. But I'm not doing it on the basis of a misguided rant.
Where is the evidence that the oil film a Seagull leaves behind is so destructive anyway?

really..... how much evidence do you need

carry on lads

no problem

as long as it looks right with the boat, sounds right and smells right

I take it you can read and know how to use a search engine



http://www.kimointernational.org/WebData/Files/RESL102D.pdf

"Two-stroke engines used by many pleasure boats are a major source of hydrocarbon and
other toxic emissions in coastal areas. The high emissions from traditional two-stroke
engines are caused by the design of the motor. Twenty to thirty percent of the fuel and the
added oil that these two-strokes use are emitted unburned directly into the water. At low
speeds, up to 40 percent of the fuel entering a cylinder might escape unburned while at the
most efficient operating range eight percent of the fuel is expelled as exhaust. A one-hour
ride on a boat with a 10-horsepower traditional two-stroke engine emits the same amount of
hydrocarbon pollution as driving a modern automobile 40,000km (25,000 miles)."


and a few others for you

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/air/emission/sbeaplib/LowPollMarineEngines-Factsheet.pdf

http://www.ukmarinesac.org.uk/activities/recreation/r03_01.htm

http://www.unep.org/transport/pcfv/PDF/Pollution2-StrokeEngines.pdf

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0897/et0897s2.html

http://www.epa.gov/region2/cleanmarine/marine_engine_07_04report.pdf

 

[Greenheart]

"A one-hour ride on a boat with a 10-horsepower traditional two-stroke engine emits the same amount of hydrocarbon pollution as driving a modern automobile 40,000km (25,000 miles)."

That is just appalling.

If there are people here whose response is 'so what?', I doubt it's worth explaining. They don't care, and they don't mind us knowing they don't.

Dylan, I hope you didn't think I was serious, suggesting 'bring back two-strokes'? The more of them that cease and are scrapped, the better.

I was mulling over possible auxiliary solutions for a heavy cruising-dinghy...

...there's only one solution, and I reckon I'll stay with it on anything up to 20'... OARS. I mean, what am I, a poor old lady? I won't need any engine!

 

[Murv]

Thanks for the links Dylan, I shall have a careful read through and check some calculations. The one above certainly doesn't sound correct but I will work through it. If it's more destructive than the total impact of replacing mine, then I will do it.

Incidentally, the anti-seagull side on here could present their cases a little less offensively, it may help generate more reasoned discussion.
I do take my environmental responsibility very seriously. In fact, I'm just about to set out on my 33 mile round trip to work by bicycle to avoid using the car, something I do regularly.
Accusing me of pissing in my own kitchen before starting a thread about your sea toilet also has more than a slight ring of hypocrisy to it!

 

[Even Chance]

I love my old Seagulls. I have a 40+ and a 40-. They are purely used as an auxillary engine on my 12 foot clinker lug-yawl sailing dinghy. Its purely an asthetic thing, but I do love the simplicity and ruggedness of the design. Theyre noisy smelly dirty things, and thats part of the charm. I doubt if mine have run for more than 5 mins in the last 4 years in total though. I sail and row where I can, cos thats what the wee boat is all about.
How many of us here have yachts of sailboats? Probably most if not all. Thats cos we love the silence, peace and eco-friendly way of the sea surely?

 

[dylanwinter]

wow

I love my old Seagulls. I have a 40+ and a 40-. They are purely used as an auxillary engine on my 12 foot clinker lug-yawl sailing dinghy. Its purely an asthetic thing, but I do love the simplicity and ruggedness of the design. Theyre noisy smelly dirty things, and thats part of the charm. I doubt if mine have run for more than 5 mins in the last 4 years in total though. I sail and row where I can, cos thats what the wee boat is all about.
How many of us here have yachts of sailboats? Probably most if not all. Thats cos we love the silence, peace and eco-friendly way of the sea surely?

two sentences stand out here

"Theyre noisy smelly dirty things, and thats part of the charm."

"we love the silence, peace and eco-friendly way of the sea "

Dylan

 

[Even Chance]

Yep, and each one appeals to me at different times. I stand by both statements. The Engineer in me likes the engine for its noise and ambience. The sailor in me likes my quiet time, alone on the water. (and I mean alone, not like the South!)
I also stated that mine are purely auxillary, and very rarely used. I have to have an outboard on her in my home waters, simply because of the tides. You do realise I'm at the Eastern end of the Pentland Firth?