Seacock handle broke

[Bouba]

With all due respect, given that you can't work out how to turn the handle (and still cannot grasp how it works) i would suggest getting the repairman in. Otherwise you run the risk of breaking something else, sinking the boat or not getting it sorted in time and having to pay the yard more money for chocking up and relaunching at a later date.

Paul…I am giving you a step by step running commentary of my predicament. You will also get updates of my repair…it is possible that the old parts have welded themselves firmly together and I can’t shift them…or a dozen other scenarios. Right now my plan is DIY

 

[Bouba]

I find it difficult to believe you cannot grasp how the handle works

I got the part working…it works…I don’t understand why your theory of how it should work trumps my practical experience of how it actually works

 

[PaulRainbow]

I got the part working…it works…I don’t understand why your theory of how it should work trumps my practical experience of how it actually works

That's the problem, despite several people explaining how it does work.

 

[Bouba]

The only logical reason why you think you couldn't close the valve because of the stopper is that, looking at your 2nd pic of post #24, you tried to rotate the handle CCW.
In fact, the stop the handle is against to in your pics does not restrict the handle movement at all if you rotate it correctly, i.e. CW.

And mounting the handle as it is in your pics or rotated by 180° round doesn't make the slightest difference, in this respect.
What jfm said is 100% correct, and if you've been able to close the valve only after disconnecting it and reinstalling it upside down, that can only be due to one of these two reasons:
1) you tried to rotate the handle CCW before, and CW afterwards. I can't think of any logical reason why you should do that, but... Hey-ho!
2) coincidence.

Mapis, please, I understand that you cannot turn a handle that has reached its stopper…but it would turn the other direction either.,,.because that direction would open it further and that is impossible. Taking the handle off and replacing it 180 degrees allows it to turn the 90 degrees to close

 

[MapisM]

But I have to report the truth… if someone buys a new seacock from the chandler and no matter how hard they try it will not move…then remove the handle and replace it at 180 degrees.
That I think is a far more important practical advice than the (untested) theory that the handle is reversible.
It might just be this brand

Hang on, what do you mean untested? And theory?
How many valves have you ever installed and/or removed?
Let alone the pass-through, which in your boots I would also replace?

Ref. the brand, what they sold you is a Maestrini valve, and fwiw even if I wouldn't call the price you paid a bargain, it's just about right, because it's a bronze body valve with a s/steel handle.
I'm not at my first rodeo, you know...

 

[MapisM]

Mapis, please, I understand that you cannot turn a handle that has reached its stopper…but it would turn the other direction either.,,.because that direction would open it further and that is impossible.
Taking the handle off and replacing it 180 degrees allows it to turn the 90 degrees to close

What do you mean open it further? It's a ball valve, FFS.
You could keep rotating it indefinitely (if it weren't for the stop), and you'd have it cyclically closed and opened every 90 degrees.
Anyway, I give up, good luck.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Mapis, please, I understand that you cannot turn a handle that has reached its stopper…but it would turn the other direction either.,,.because that direction would open it further and that is impossible. Taking the handle off and replacing it 180 degrees allows it to turn the 90 degrees to close

It doesn't open further, or even try to do so. The valve is just a ball with a hole in it, remove the stops and it just goes around and around, in either direction.

 

[Bouba]

I will have one more go at this…
This is the old and broken handle..as you can see it is symmetrical therefore bidirectional


The new handle is not

 

[Fire99]

I'm keeping out of the handle debate as to be honest, I'm completely lost. However, I replaced one of my seacocks last year as 'the handle' was jammed solid so it's pretty fresh in my mind. I would say the skin fitting is likely to need replacing. They get virtually welded to the valve body and once you have whacked, pulled and tugged at the thing, the risk of weakening an already deteriorated fitting is high. Obviously if the old seacock spins off without any issues and the fitting is in top condition then ignore this but my replacement was the first one I'd done but I used a grinder to remove the flange on the hull, fitted a new one with polyurethane sealant/adhesive and then attached the new seacock.. Now that is the one of about 745000 others that I can no longer worry about.

 

[petem]

Bouba, don't forget to get some disks for your angle grinder.

 

[stelican]

Bouba.
Have you considered that you may well need a second person under the boat to stop the thru-hull from rotating when you attempt to remove the valve?

 

[Bouba]

I'm keeping out of the handle debate as to be honest, I'm completely lost. However, I replaced one of my seacocks last year as 'the handle' was jammed solid so it's pretty fresh in my mind. I would say the skin fitting is likely to need replacing. They get virtually welded to the valve body and once you have whacked, pulled and tugged at the thing, the risk of weakening an already deteriorated fitting is high. Obviously if the old seacock spins off without any issues and the fitting is in top condition then ignore this but my replacement was the first one I'd done but I used a grinder to remove the flange on the hull, fitted a new one with polyurethane sealant/adhesive and then attached the new seacock.. Now that is the one of about 745000 others that I can no longer worry about.

This is my biggest fear.,,,but I can only try it and see what happens….the seacock is too big to use a delicate tool like a Dremmel, and it is pretty hard to use an angle grinder without damaging the threads.
It is possible that the repairman has tricks to remove them…but as you say worse case scenario is a new thru hull. But that brings me to the next dilemma, do I wait until I can get a complete TrueDesign solution?

 

[ChromeDome]

I'm not a specialist, but doesn't this show they work?

 

[Bouba]

Bouba.
Have you considered that you may well need a second person under the boat to stop the thru-hull from rotating when you attempt to remove the valve?

The thru hull has a large nut inside the boat…and I have to make sure it doesn’t move or it will break the seal
This is why my plan is to make some dedicated 70 spanners today

 

[Bouba]

Bouba, don't forget to get some disks for your angle grinder.

My biggest concern is that I can get out of the boat while it’s still in the slings…I’m worried that in a swinging boat a ladder might be dangerous

 

[stelican]

The thru hull has a large nut inside the boat…and I have to make sure it doesn’t move or it will break the seal
This is why my plan is to make some dedicated 70 spanners today

The corncern is when you rotate the valve, If the valve is seized onto the thru-hull you could rotate it breaking the seal. It's not the nut which is concern, It's preventing the thru-hull moving.
Oh and when they lift the boat make sure they dont put the lifting strop over the thru-hull!

 

[Bouba]

The corncern is when you rotate the valve, If the valve is seized onto the thru-hull you could rotate it breaking the seal.

Absolutely my fear as well…a small boat job turning into a big one ….like that’s never happened

 

[Scubadoo]

My biggest concern is that I can get out of the boat while it’s still in the slings…I’m worried that in a swinging boat a ladder might be dangerous

Surely they will lower it on blocks but with the slings still in place, doesn't sound right leaving it in slings overnight without any additional support.

Since there are some unknowns in removing the old unit, I would just get the repairman to do it as he will have everything he needs and knows what to do if there are problems. If you make even a slight mistake like disturbing the thru hull seal, it will start weeping when back in the water, then you'll have all the expense of another liftout.

I do like your problem posts on this forum, some of the responses are quite informative.

 

[Fire99]

This is my biggest fear.,,,but I can only try it and see what happens….the seacock is too big to use a delicate tool like a Dremmel, and it is pretty hard to use an angle grinder without damaging the threads.
It is possible that the repairman has tricks to remove them…but as you say worse case scenario is a new thru hull. But that brings me to the next dilemma, do I wait until I can get a complete TrueDesign solution?

Where I was going with this was to use the angle grinder to remove the skin fitting rather than trying to cut the valve from the skin fitting leaving it intact. Funnily enough I fitted a complete TruDesign seacock and skin fitting (I think the skin fitting was somewhere around a tenner). A very good piece of kit.
I'm not an expert on thru-hulls as so far I've only fitted one but everyone I've spoken to has suggested replacing the skin fitting at the same time as the valve as any deterioration of the valve will also equate to deterioration of the skin fitting. As I say, each to their own but if I'm going to the trouble of replacing a seacock I'd go the extra mile and replace the skin fitting at the same time. I don't want a nice new shiny seacock coming away with a skin fitting that has fractured.

 

[wonkywinch]

Our boat had four struts wedged against the hull when it was in slings last weekend. It still moved a bit though, so I tied the ladder to the boat.

A quick question for Bouba. When you gave the sea cock the welly it needed to break it, which direction were you trying to open it? I had exactly the same problem this week due to misplacement of the threaded rod visible in your images. The only way the lever could move in your case, was clockwise looking at the handle. The pin would stop any anticlockwise motion with the cut out in the handle touching the screw. This screw can be moved to the other hole to allow the handle to move the other way.

Once I unscrewed the pin (allen key) on our boat, I could move the seacock when originally, like yours I thought it was stuck. Has it ever been operated in the past?