Scuttlebutt Solent to Poole Novice Cruise - Spring 2012

[PhillM]

I’ve just realised that the May half term coincides with the Diamond Jubilee Bank holiday.

In a fit of madness we have registered for the pageant (don’t know if we will be accepted or not but they did say they were looking for more classic’s to join the avenue of sail) so we MIGHT be on our way to / from London that week. I hasten to add that we would get help from a much more experienced skipper or even hire a pro if we do get selected – no way am going to be tangling with shipping lanes and the Goodwin Sands all on my own!

Easter holidays appear to run from 6th – 17th April. Although it’s a bit early in the season, it might be great to get the season started with this trip?
Comments ......

 

[Giblets]

This sounds like it could be fun. Hope a little Leisure 17 from Langstone would be welcome on the trip. Outside the Solent my charts say "There be dragons!"

 

[Sans Bateau]

I think you may do well to stay clear of any bank holiday for a rally, people often have family commitments and historically the weather is poo!

 

[JokersWild]

Jokers Wild is up for it if the dates work. Regular crew believe that "there be monsters" past the needles, so might make them happier

 

[Sans Bateau]

Jokers Wild is up for it if the dates work. Regular crew believe that "there be monsters" past the needles, so might make them happier

Your crew may be pleasantly surprised when you realise that in many cases the 'monsters' are all in the Solent.

 

[Seajet]

I think this is an excellent idea, count me in.

I have visited Poole ( and rather further ) many times, but I know people, some with young families, at my club with similar boats - Anderson 22 - who would appreciate a cruise in company.

Like Galadriel I am unsure about a Bank Holiday, as Poole is not too well off for visitors berths and it may be overcrowded even at anchorages in the harbour.

 

[prv]

Your crew may be pleasantly surprised when you realise that in many cases the 'monsters' are all in the Solent.

Yep - get out past the Needles and it all gets a bit easier as you can stop playing dodgems

Pete

 

[JokersWild]

Yep - get out past the Needles and it all gets a bit easier as you can stop playing dodgems

Pete

And the world doesn't end there? .... I'm sure this is what SWMBO believes ...

 

[Seajet]

JokersWild,

get SWMBO to have a look at this site then !

Images of Poole...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=po...4&bih=652&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=un

 

[Ru88ell]

How much of an issue is the tide in that bay? Are we going to be restricted to 2nd or 30th June for a morning ebb?

HW Portsmouth (BST):
Sat. 19/5/12 11:18
Sat. 26/5/12 15:35
Sat. 2/6/12 09:56
Sat. 9/6/12 16:05
Sat. 16/6/12 10:03
Sat. 23/6/12 14:38
Sat. 30/6/12 08:28
According to my free tables from Quay Lane Boatyard!

 

[Seajet]

I don't have a clue which date will be chosen, but relax !

The tidal gate at Hurst is the important bit, but I've been around there many times in my 22' boat and in normal conditions as for getting timing right - as the rally would assist as well -well you'll find it's a pussycat, with interesting scenery.

The main worry is 'why don't they paint mobile homes green ?!' as you go past, then aim offshore after rounding the large N Head buoy and aiming a bee-line for Anvil Point.

There are usually a few fishing boats to watch on the way, but it's a very casual trip; I have a photo of a friend who'd never sailed before dozing in her lee-cloth on that trip.

One watches the landmarks on the paper chart go past, maybe taking the odd hand bearing fix as this is the ideal place for it, and watches the cliffs of Old Harry / Studland come up while aimimg for Poole Fairway buoy, then going in on the port side; by that time a whole different atmosphere compared to the Solent has descended !

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Oh no!

Make my excuses now!! We have one of the new Hartley racing Mk4s so no front or rear buoyancy tanks for extra stores!! Buoyance is now between the hull and inner moulding.

Wot 'ave Waffies come to!
Where do you put the boat tent, stove, cooking gear, w/proof sleeping and clothes bags and the beer and wine in old 81mm mortar round cases, and bbq + charcoal, folding real coffee filter, coffee hot cans, spare gps batteries......
alas our old Smallcraft Mk2 W7241

Woe, Woe & thrice Woe as Lurkio used to say!
The writings on the wall;
Mene, Mene, Tekel Upharsarin

Oh, and we might be up for that trip as overwatch with some of our novice Club members from Chi Hbr depending on dates, and our own 2012 Rally programme

 

[PhillM]

I received my 2012 Almanac yesterday and have started to do a bit of planning for this trip. Here is where I have go to so far...

From what I have read there are two tidal gates: Hurst and the entrance to Poole Harbour. It seems that Hurst is the worst, although I am finding it hard to find accurate information about Poole Harbour entrance. So far I have a statement in my “Channel Pilot” that says “beware the strong tides at the entrance”. This makes me think that we would want to enter on a rising tide.

I am assuming that we would only do this trip if we have a fair weather forecast. I am assuming that the lightest wind we would want would be F3 and the strongest forecast we would go would be F4 gusting F5.

Plotting a rough route on my pc (paper charts ordered but not yet here) it looks that it is about 17NM from Yarmouth to Studland, and a further 5NM from Studland to Poole Town Quay Marina.

Assuming that in the lightest winds we would manage 3.5kn and in the strongest 5kn, the journey time from Yarmouth to Studland is between 3.5 and 5 hours. I am also assuming that we would use engine from Studland to town quay. We make about 3.5kn on engine so that would be about another 1 ½ hours passage.

Looking at the tidal flows, it looks like we need to leave Yarmouth (using Portsmouth tide times) at HW-1. We would then have fair tide all the way to Poole. If we are early, we could anchor at Studland to wait for LW Poole, if we are late, the worst case is that we have a foul tide as we cross the bay ready to make the approach into Poole harbour, but even at springs that doesn’t look to be more than 1kn. Assuming that the above is correct, it looks like we would want to go on a day when HW Portsmouth is mid morning.

For example on Sat 5th May HW is 10.15 UTC (Convert to BST = 11.15 and leaving at HW-1 = 10.15 BST). The Poole LW is 1535 UTC which means that if we get to Studland quickly, we will need to wait a couple of hours before entering, but if we are slower, then we should arrive about the right time to make our entry. Sunset is 1940 UTC so there is plenty of daylight time to navigate to Town Quay.

BUT

Looking at the return, on Sunday 6th May, Poole LW is 0402 UTC with the next LW at 1623. This suggests that we would need to leave very early to be sure of leaving the Harbour on the ebb. However, sunrise is not until 0402 – so that would mean a night navigation through Poole Harbour and I don’t really relish that!

The logical conclusion is that I need to find a weekend with a later Portsmouth HW and therefore later LW at Poole on the Sunday. That would mean a later departure from Yarmouth on the Saturday and less margin for error on the sail to Studland. Looking back at the Almanac, I can see days where the Poole LW is around 11 am BUT that would mean a very early departure from Yarmouth the next day.

I guess the question is: just exactly how strong is the tide through the entrance to Poole harbour.

Comments and suggestions please.

Thanks,
Phill

 

[prv]

Comments and suggestions please.

No comment on the tidal planning - and thanks for doing this.

Can't see any reason why we'd want to motor up the harbour. (Although I believe in theory you're meant to have an engine running in the entrance itself.)

Is the destination to be the marina then? I'm happy to go with whatever's planned, but I did rather like the suggestion of anchoring somewhere.

Pete

 

[Giblets]

IIRC the flow through Poole Harbour Entrance is around at a maximum of 2 knots approx 2hrs before (ebb) and 2hrs after LW (flood) on a spring tide which, if you are working on a late morning Portsmouth HW is what you would have. Stand to be corrected though.

 

[colhel]

This season we laft Yarmouth to be at the Needles at High water to give us a push to Poole. You don't need to go via Studland, but there is a sandbank, I forgot it's name though just to the east of the Swash Channel as you approach the harbour entrance.
We did this last August bank holiday which was'nt quite a spring tide but very high. We got from Needles to entrance in about 2.5 hours, but the harbour just started to ebb and getting back to our mooring was a slow old trek, about 1.5 hrs I think, We're moored just past the Channel Ferry port.
There are lots of anchorages, but also lots of shallow water. The only time I've navigated the harbour at night I nearly crashed into a cardinal bouy (It's about the size of a Land Rover).
I wouldn't recomend a night passage especially if your as stupid as me.
The town quay marina cost abot £18.00 for our 23 footer per night. Lots of pubs and eating places on the Quay.
Those that wish to anchor I could asist.

 

[DJE]

Poole tidal curves are odd to say the least. The range is small and a rough approximation is that it runs out hard for two hours before LW, runs in hard for two hours after low water and stands around going up and down a bit for eight hours inbetween. So if you're more than two hours either side of LW tidal stream won't be too much of a problem.

Hurst and the Western Solent is a problem. In a small boat you really need a fair tide.

 

[prv]

The town quay marina cost abot £18.00 for our 23 footer per night. Lots of pubs and eating places on the Quay.
Those that wish to anchor I could asist.

I'm not that anti-social that I'd want to go off and anchor while everyone else was at the marina

Actually, remembering being moored in Stavros at the Town Quay itself, directly opposite the pubs, I can see the appeal of the marina option

Pete

 

[prv]

Hurst and the Western Solent is a problem. In a small boat you really need a fair tide.

I've sailed in through Hurst against the tide once (coming back from Poole as a matter of fact). It took a very long time! There was a slightly smaller boat doing the same thing - they were going backwards under sail and even once they deployed an outboard at max chat they were creeping in no faster than me.

So yep, this is the timing constraint to plan around.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

Hurst narrows is definitely the bit I'd treat with most respect; can be an evil place, with serious overfalls, and you certainly want the tide going your way; but can be a doddle if timing it right in the right weather.

Poole entrance has a much stronger tide than the 2 knots mentioned, I once struggled to get in with 4hp engine flat out on my fairly slippery 22' boat, and only made headway when I raised the keel, so over 4 knots !

Unless you stray too near Anvil Point, it doesn't get that lumpy though at the Poole end; it's a very pleasant trip from the Solent to Poole & back, but one must pay regard to the weather.

Must say I'd be keener on anchoring or going alongside the Town Quay - have plenty of good big fenders, seriously ! - rather than paying squillions in the marinas, unless we can organise a discount ?

For those with the time, the trip up to Wareham is quite lovely.