Schengen Loophole.
- Thread starter goeasy123
- Start date
Hoolie
Well-known member
The conditions of my French carte de séjour limit me to 90/180 in other Schengen countries. But without frontier controls on the roads how can this be enforced? I really don't think it's a policy that holds water!
westernman
Well-known member
I don't have a carte de sejour, but a titre de séjour permanent.
No idea if that makes a difference.
billskip
Well-known member
.
Graham376
Well-known member
Lots of contradictions, a different contact said those with residence (but no citizen partner) in one country are limited to 90/180 in others. He/she did confirm the bit about not stamping and transit. Of course for residents moving around without internal border control, no-one knows where we've been and for how long and this will continue even with the upcoming database.
Poignard
Well-known member
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/frequently_asked_questions_en.pdf
As you say, how can it be enforced?
billskip
Well-known member
Why would they want to enforce it? It's there if they need it, but you are the one running the gauntlet should something happen. If your sick or accident and need medical they are going to be asking questions.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
In my opinion, this is a bluff or a downright mis-direction trying to paste over an anomoly that fails to join two or more conflicting features of an incomplete and poorly thought out attempt to intimidate residents to respect a "suggestion" as a command. Or else. . OK i respect the duration of a "short stay". So what if I don't. I don't have a "short stay" Nothing to do with me. I have something totally different called a permanent resident card which allows me to stay in Schengen for as long as I like.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Surely there must be a similar defence like the 5th amendment in the USA. Self incrimination via answering questions after being cautioned is protected. No need to be confrontational. Just be polite and truly saddened by your poor memory of when exactly you left home. But I agree with you why would they bother. They have the means to get rid of you without involving the "human rights" outfit.
billskip
Well-known member
You can kick this about for the rest of your life, the rules are there, as you say you can stay in the schengen zone as long as you like, but only in the country that you are resident and are supposed to obey the rules .
If you choose not to obey the rules then should you lose your visa/residence and be fined ,deported and lose your boat / possessions that's up to you.
There are 'illegals' running about all over the world,working on the black, sooner or later the will find it will become more difficult.
If you choose not to obey the rules then should you lose your visa/residence and be fined ,deported and lose your boat / possessions that's up to you.
There are 'illegals' running about all over the world,working on the black, sooner or later the will find it will become more difficult.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Wow. Don't be a drama queen. There is something seriously wrong with a system that stamps the passport of 25 million tourists but must exclude 200 or so residents from having their passports stamped on entry. Ask yourself why. It is the EU that chooses not to stamp the passports of residents. Stamping passports is a world wide system to allow immigration to start the clock on the various time restrictions.
If residents are only allowed 90/180 in the rest of Schengen, why not stamp their passports like everyone else? Job done. IMO, it is because there are two seperate systems under the same umbrella that are in direct conflict. There is only one Schengen and a resident has permission to be in Schengen indefinitely. If the passport is stamped it puts the resident under a time restriction even in their resident state. The EU is a club not a federal organisation. Not stamping the passports of residents is a band-aid to cover up their incompetence, and ASKING residents to please "respect" their wish to cover it up. I consider that I should respect their decision to not stamp my passport which releases me from the obligation of a time limt on my resident status and stay in the rest of Schengen for as long as I like. I can anyway but forget that for a moment, I repeat that it is the EU that makes this exception to not stamp my passport not me.
It is like drilling a railway tunnel from both ends to find thry do not meet in the middle, so passengers are bussed across the gap.
billskip
Well-known member
First I'm not being a drama queen, I am jus pointing out the possible inconvenience it ma cause if someone overstays their legal entitlement.
It seems to me that you are concerned about passport stamps, I dont understand why, if your passport is stamped and you are doing nothing illegal what's the problem?
We can all complain and disagree with a system that doesn't suit us, and we can all see the fault in a system that causes inconvenience, also we can vent our disagreements on tintnet forums such as this,but theres more a chance of win the lottery than change the rules.
I really cant see a problem, I am a brit living with temp residence permit in Spain (Tenerife) I can come and go from UK or anywhere in schengen, but I am restricted by the terms of my Spanish residency to leave Spain for more than 90 days, this is not a (B word) thing, this is the rule of Spain.
Nobody is going to start being bounty hunters, but you are the one that is outside the legal system (weather you agree or not with the system) and you will have to explain yourself.
Stop worrying about stamps in passports, years ago we used to show off with all the stamps we could get..get a 10 page passport next time it'll give more room......
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
I give up.
billskip
Well-known member
It's a good decision, theres mor to life?
Sailfree
Well-known member
Just returned to Portugal after 4 days in UK.
Left Portugal in UK car via Santander.
Passports scanned by Spanish but no stamp once shown Portuguese residency.
Returned today flying to Lisbon. Notice in UK passports queue at Lisbon every passport was scanned and stamped. Presented mine with residency document and passport just scanned.
As you can enter EU via any country it appears there is no system linking all the countries- at present! So stamping passport is only way of determining EU stay period.
UK car entered France in February, then transversed Spain and Portugal and now left Spain in July.
I am now in the unique position of having both UK cars in UK and both Portuguese cars in Portugal for once!
I suspect things will get tighter at some future date.
Left Portugal in UK car via Santander.
Passports scanned by Spanish but no stamp once shown Portuguese residency.
Returned today flying to Lisbon. Notice in UK passports queue at Lisbon every passport was scanned and stamped. Presented mine with residency document and passport just scanned.
As you can enter EU via any country it appears there is no system linking all the countries- at present! So stamping passport is only way of determining EU stay period.
UK car entered France in February, then transversed Spain and Portugal and now left Spain in July.
I am now in the unique position of having both UK cars in UK and both Portuguese cars in Portugal for once!
I suspect things will get tighter at some future date.
Last edited:
BoatBouy
New member
Schengen is just like the CTA between NI and Ireland. Can cross the land border at will but each country issues their own residence permits to non-UK and non-Irish inhabitants.
No way to check that a non Citizen with a permit for one side is not spending most of their time on the other.
In practice the risks are minimal as residency conditioned on showing you have a job etc that is going to keep you in the state of residence most of the time.
For Schengen it is clearly stated in the Convention that;
Article 21
1. Aliens who hold valid residence permits issued by one of the Member States may, on the basis of that permit and a valid travel document, move freely for up to 90 days in any 180-day period within the territories of the other Member States
Like the CTA there are no checks at the borders between Schengen states but the risk of residents in one state spending more than 90/180 is negligible as most residents will have ties of employment that keep them in the state of residence most of the time.
No way to check that a non Citizen with a permit for one side is not spending most of their time on the other.
In practice the risks are minimal as residency conditioned on showing you have a job etc that is going to keep you in the state of residence most of the time.
For Schengen it is clearly stated in the Convention that;
Article 21
1. Aliens who hold valid residence permits issued by one of the Member States may, on the basis of that permit and a valid travel document, move freely for up to 90 days in any 180-day period within the territories of the other Member States
Like the CTA there are no checks at the borders between Schengen states but the risk of residents in one state spending more than 90/180 is negligible as most residents will have ties of employment that keep them in the state of residence most of the time.
Graham376
Well-known member
Don't forget that every time you check into a marina, the national authorities are notified and when the new database goes live next year, no doubt the reporting will be EU wide, not just local.
BoatBouy
New member
The new EU Entry Exit System is only the entry and exit information collected (including biometric registration) when you clear immigration as a short stay visitor, it doesn’t apply to EU/Schengen citizens or those with residence.
Marina info while travelling inside Schengen won’t be integrated into it, but kept by the National Authorities.
In any event the EES will automatically calculate compliance with the 90/180 rule for visitors to the EU so it won’t be possible to overstay in Schengen without consequences.
Graham376
Well-known member
Some are already overstaying by declaring they're heading out of EU to Morocco and having their passports stamped out of Portugal. They then move on and anchor in Guadiana or Spain, officially not there.
billskip
Well-known member
From what I have actually seen the port police/immigration go out to anchoring boats and inspect papers here, so anchoring out will not be a solution.
Port police visited anchored boats in the Aegean when I was there 20 yrs ago, so they also possibly wont have safe haven.