Schengen Loophole.

[goeasy123]

See Med Sailing Facebook group. Post from Alex Alley, 27th June at 10:31.

'....boarder officer refused to stamp our passports, saying that as we are not going more than 10km inland we are not actually entering Schengen, so we can stay here as long as we want without actually checking in.'

 

[tkalfaoglu]

which country and which border I wonder? That sounds too good to be true

 

[syvictoria]

See Med Sailing Facebook group. Post from Alex Alley, 27th June at 10:31.

'....boarder officer refused to stamp our passports, saying that as we are not going more than 10km inland we are not actually entering Schengen, so we can stay here as long as we want without actually checking in.'

It might be helpful for context to include the location/country this occurred in?

 

[tkalfaoglu]

Found it!
Med Sailing | Facebook

 

[goeasy123]

It might be helpful for context to include the location/country this occurred in?

Ibiza. others countries mentioned in comments.

 

[syvictoria]

Ibiza. others countries mentioned in comments.

Thanks. I don't use FB.

It would be very interesting to see written evidence of this 'rule' in law. It would certainly be a game-changer if it could be guaranteed/proven if/when contested (which, sadly, I suspect it can't).

 

[LittleSister]

Thanks. I don't use FB.

It would be very interesting to see written evidence of this 'rule' in law. It would certainly be a game-changer if it could be guaranteed/proven if/when contested.

I'm sure there is no such 'rule'. Just an official (in a place with probably more temporary visitors than residents) using his/her discretion to turn a blind eye (and/or save themselves a bit of paperwork), I imagine.

 

[Graham376]

Ibiza? Where had they arrived from, were they already logged into Schengen elsewhere?

 

[Poignard]

See Med Sailing Facebook group. Post from Alex Alley, 27th June at 10:31.

'....boarder officer refused to stamp our passports, saying that as we are not going more than 10km inland we are not actually entering Schengen, so we can stay here as long as we want without actually checking in.'

'

Ibiza. others countries mentioned in comments.

'
Ibiza is 20km wide.

It would be impossible to go more than 10km inland.

Maybe the official was 'avin' a larf.

 

[Ningaloo]

I got the same response in Alghero, Sardinia arriving from Mallorca where I had checked out of Schengen. Told that boat crew don't need to be processed.
Eventually found someone in Cagliari willing to do this just before I flew out.
Saved me at least 2 weeks of my 90 days...

 

[BurnitBlue]

IMO
ITIAS will remove all individual discretion from border officials.

However, EU Governments are under a lot of pressure from their citizens, (three are already on the verge of "Lame Duck" ). Perhaps they are nervous about continuing with ETIAS because of the effect on the tourist trade, and demonstrations. About the only thing still not Fubar. Maybe delay for a few more years. EU has dug themselves into a big hole money and energy wise, so they have maybe decided to stop digging. For now. Fat chance of that.

Otherwise 12 cm or twelve kilometers are still the start of 90/180. Frankly, i cannot see the EU backing off. The only option the EU has is to continue or sop stamping and scanning passports

 

[sailaboutvic]

I also think it's just one official who making it up as he goes alone .
Most of us who have cruised the Med are use to that happening.

My experience is some people have more problems then others because of the way they go around stuff .
Just my option .

 

[BurnitBlue]

I also think it's just one official who making it up as he goes alone .
Most of us who have cruised the Med are use to that happening.

My experience is some people have more problems then others because of the way they go around stuff .
Just my option .

This thread is a perfect example of wishfull thinking. Nobody really believes it but people cannot help wishing it were so. ITIAS will be computer based and therefore heartless in automatic implementation. Starting with visa waiver application for a 7 euro fee.

There are still problems and anomolies with ITIAS. For instance, 3rd party tourists who are residents of a Schengen country must show their residency card and carry a valid passport. I have no idea if a residency card is scannable. My information from migrationsverket is that it is definitely not a valid card for identification. It is basically a card to allow a resident back into his "home" by local immigration inspectors. It cannot be implemented into ITIAS so a workaround is to instruct immigration officials to NOT scan the passports of residents of any of the 27 countries. Good luck with that in Greece. Or with airlines who operate on passports which are the only universal ID documents.

Could UK apply for candidate status and therefore skate around some rules for the next 30 years without actually re-joining the EU? No idea but maybe worth a rumour or two.

 

[westernman]

This thread is a perfect example of wishfull thinking. Nobody really believes it but people cannot help wishing it were so. ITIAS will be computer based and therefore heartless in automatic implementation. Starting with visa waiver application for a 7 euro fee.

There are still problems and anomolies with ITIAS. For instance, 3rd party tourists who are residents of a Schengen country must show their residency card and carry a valid passport. I have no idea if a residency card is scannable. My information from migrationsverket is that it is definitely not a valid card for identification. It is basically a card to allow a resident back into his "home" by local immigration inspectors. It cannot be implemented into ITIAS so a workaround is to instruct immigration officials to NOT scan the passports of residents of any of the 27 countries. Good luck with that in Greece. Or with airlines who operate on passports which are the only universal ID documents.

Could UK apply for candidate status and therefore skate around some rules for the next 30 years without actually re-joining the EU? No idea but maybe worth a rumour or two.

My French residency card is scannable and has a biometric chip on it.

 

[BurnitBlue]

My French residency card is scannable and has a biometric chip on it.

Interesting. I have never had reason to have mine scanned. It is biometric with fingerprints but the statement by migrationsverket that it cannot be used for identification is a puzzle. My driving licence is accepted within Sweden for ID but not the residence card.

If the card is scannable then it raises the question about why the passport should not be stamped or scanned to avoid a conflict with 90/180 on returning home inside Schengen. Surely, the ETIAS software could sort that out. Scan both the passport and the residence card and the software can sort out the implications of running out of 90 days in Schengen when I return home still in Schengen for as long as I like.

My feeling is that there is still only ONE Schengen and only one basic set of rules. If a residence card allows unlimitted stay in Schengen in a resident member state then that that will interfere mightily with any restriction in Schengen outside the resident state. The EU avoid any such conflict by issueing instructions to border officials to not stamp or scan EU residents. A typical kick the can down the road. Frankly, I could not care less. I consider that the EU has given me and others tacit approval to stay in EU Schengen for as long as my residence card is valid to allow me unlimited stay in Schengen at "home", Don't rock the boat. Treat the fact that border controls are instructed to allow me to come and go without interference as a big plus. This also impact the need to apply for a 7 Euro visa, because, by implication A resident already has one even for travel in the rest of EU.
EDIT ... much later ... Just realised that I am drifting the thread so I will stop it and shut up.

 

[westernman]

Interesting. I have never had reason to have mine scanned. It is biometric with fingerprints but the statement by migrationsverket that it cannot be used for identification is a puzzle. My driving licence is accepted within Sweden for ID but not the residence card.

If the card is scannable then it raises the question about why the passport should not be stamped or scanned to avoid a conflict with 90/180 on returning home inside Schengen. Surely, the ETIAS software could sort that out. Scan both the passport and the residence card and the software can sort out the implications of running out of 90 days in Schengen when I return home still in Schengen for as long as I like.

My feeling is that there is still only ONE Schengen and only one basic set of rules. If a residence card allows unlimitted stay in Schengen in a resident member state then that that will interfere mightily with any restriction in Schengen outside the resident state. The EU avoid any such conflict by issueing instructions to border officials to not stamp or scan EU residents. A typical kick the can down the road. Frankly, I could not care less. I consider that the EU has given me and others tacit approval to stay in EU Schengen for as long as my residence card is valid to allow me unlimited stay in Schengen at "home", Don't rock the boat. Treat the fact that border controls are instructed to allow me to come and go without interference as a big plus. This also impact the need to apply for a 7 Euro visa, because, by implication A resident already has one even for travel in the rest of EU.

My impression is that when my passport is scanned, they know about my residency. I have not had any stamps in my passport despite flying into and out of Schengen area within Europe.

I have not used my residency card for any border crossing ever.

 

[billskip]

The way I see it is that there are many people pretending to live in one place ,but in actual fact are living in another, out of the millions of people in Europe this is possibly a lot considering the percentage on these forums that openly say keep schtum,dont tell em pike....
For some reason, and for sure imho it is financial, the powers to be are going to ensure all conform to the regulations.
Say what you like about 90/180, soon it will be insignificant even to the EU people.

 

[SandyP]

From the FB discussion, the 10k rule comes from handling visiting ships crew so they are not excluded from working on board within Schengen

As long as everyone on board is crew, could be workable

How etias will handle it is anyone's guess

 

[Sailfree]

I'm sure there is no such 'rule'. Just an official (in a place with probably more temporary visitors than residents) using his/her discretion to turn a blind eye (and/or save themselves a bit of paperwork), I imagine.

One thing we have learnt in Portugal very early on is that all EU country rules are open to local interpretation!

 

[st599]

Where did the boat come from previously? Sure;y most visitors to Ibiza have arrived from a Schengen state.