jwilson
Well-known member
When you get it together try a few handicap races - FFs are murderously hard to beat on handicap against their standard PN, especially once the wind gets up.
Saved from the bonfire...new project!
- Thread starter Iain C
- Start date
EBoat126
New member
Nice, my dad had a 15 on Loch Ryan, it was the first boat I ever sailed. I remember it being wet but great fun.
paul.norton
New member
Uffa will be grinning in his grave
Paul
Paul
PhillM
Well-known member
Your post is a pleasure to read, Iain. Looking forward to the pics of the metaphoric 'rising from the ashes'....
+1
And tell the classic boat museum when you are sailing to cowes. I'm sure they would love to see her sail in and will make a big thing of it.
Iain C
Active member
Thanks for the encouragement people! I'm thoroughly enjoying doing the work in the evenings...when boat projects normally involve carbon and GRP it's nice to work with wood...and the perfect antidote to a day fighting my way round the M25 or similar in the wacky world of IT sales.
I didn't know there was a classic boat museum in Cowes...I'll have to have a look at that, and yes, I guess they might have an interest in the boat. She won't be a faithful restoration...most of the fittings are modern ball bearing kit, tapered vectran spinnaker sheets, spilt tail mainsheet etc...but as a fairly serious dinghy racer I'm not sure I could live with dodgy old plain bearing tufnol stuff! I'm thinking of her as one of those remanufactured E types...lovely lines and pedigree but stuff actually works properly where it counts. For those who have mentioned racing, she gets a special handicap due to her age, but as recently as 7 years ago was beating some of the modern stuff in lighter breeze due to a slightly different hill shape. Perhaps the odd FF open and a bit of pot hunting...
Tonight's dilemma...go sailing the 49er in quite some breeze (club racing tonight) with someone I've never sailed with before (regular skiff crew is a bit broken) or more varnish stripping?
Oldbilbo, YHM.
I didn't know there was a classic boat museum in Cowes...I'll have to have a look at that, and yes, I guess they might have an interest in the boat. She won't be a faithful restoration...most of the fittings are modern ball bearing kit, tapered vectran spinnaker sheets, spilt tail mainsheet etc...but as a fairly serious dinghy racer I'm not sure I could live with dodgy old plain bearing tufnol stuff! I'm thinking of her as one of those remanufactured E types...lovely lines and pedigree but stuff actually works properly where it counts. For those who have mentioned racing, she gets a special handicap due to her age, but as recently as 7 years ago was beating some of the modern stuff in lighter breeze due to a slightly different hill shape. Perhaps the odd FF open and a bit of pot hunting...
Tonight's dilemma...go sailing the 49er in quite some breeze (club racing tonight) with someone I've never sailed with before (regular skiff crew is a bit broken) or more varnish stripping?
Oldbilbo, YHM.
Iain C
Active member
Light evenings and the rain holding off today has resulted in a bit more progress. Most of the heat gun stripping is done...the cockpit floor was a complete mish-mash of varnish, polyester, epoxy, deck paint, araldite, and sikaflex. The wood is generally excellent, even if it has taken days with just about every variant of electric sander known to man to get down to! But worth it I think.
I lifted the upper hog today and removed all the glass tape from under it...again it's all solid, however most of the little leaf-sping frames need repairing. They've been done before, but badly...small pieces with the grain going the wrong way! She may be old but the plan is to race her properly and not leave the cover on just because it's blowing 20kts, so all this structural stuff will be done properly.
Hoping to have the cockpit fully sanded and ready for epoxy repairs by tomorrow evening.
I lifted the upper hog today and removed all the glass tape from under it...again it's all solid, however most of the little leaf-sping frames need repairing. They've been done before, but badly...small pieces with the grain going the wrong way! She may be old but the plan is to race her properly and not leave the cover on just because it's blowing 20kts, so all this structural stuff will be done properly.
Hoping to have the cockpit fully sanded and ready for epoxy repairs by tomorrow evening.
ianat182
Well-known member
I seem to remember someone saying that the mainsail was the same as the International 14 when originally designed by Uffa Fox, perhaps another route for a cruising sail. Some FFs were built at Warsash in the 50's by the Tormentor Yachts company there and highly regarded for their finish and speed, yours I guess must be from the Copland stable on the Island.
She looks a worthwhile project for resurrection. a very good find!
ianat182
She looks a worthwhile project for resurrection. a very good find!
ianat182
Paddingtonbear
New member
Truly inspirational, just the sort of topic that PBO should be featuring rather than how to link some murderously expensive electronic gizmo to another murderously expensive gizmo. It is such a shame that there is no dedicated magazine or forum for this type of thing. Yes, I know about the American sites and I often go on these but am frustrated that there appear to be no equivalent UK/European magazine or sites. The thing about the American sites is that they appear to be able to source top quality materials fairly cheaply even to the extent of getting bronze fittings cast to a high standard locally (well within 100 miles) as well as being able to construct viable worksheds etc, almost at will.
bbdave
New member
It looks like a fine craft I love FFs and would love another my dad had one years ago which I crewed and even though we didn't have much of a clue we had a blast in it launching was easy and recovery was once we started using a strop round the keel.
Dave
Dave
Resolution
Well-known member
There was a very active fleet of FFs in Hong Kong in my day, doubtless there will be some forumite who raced them there. I had the unfortunate experience of ramming and sailing right over one in my Impala. Trying to squeeze round the windward mark against a strong tide he suddenly tacked onto port right in front of us and bang there he was disappearing under our bow! Must have been brain fade or something as the helm was considerably experienced.
Iain C
Active member
Another quick update (do shout if this is boring you or wasting bandwidth! Apologies also for the retro filters on the pics...just discovered that on Flickr and kinda goes with the retro boat!)
Quite an important day, as I was able to start one of the important jobs, and also start rebuilding rather than just stripping and sanding. There's still some goop to get off right at the front of the cockpit under the foredeck, but we're nearly there.
Anyway, most of the ribs are broken on the stbd side and as mentioned before have bee repaired very badly. So it was in with the chisel to chop out the rubbish (only 2 at a time so as not to lose too much strength during the repair with little old me running around in the cockpit)...
...and in with new pieces, a few laminated layers of 5mm ply shaped and bent to fit, and epoxied in place. It's the two in the middle of the pic...
Lastly, some fillets to the aft cockpit, there will be lots of these giving extra strength on all the joins. Experience from wooden Fireballs shows areas like this are under quite a bit of load, especially when the driver gets overexcited putting the kite up (halyard goes back here). Also the side "tanks" were not joined to the aft bulkhead...sorted now.
Quite an important day, as I was able to start one of the important jobs, and also start rebuilding rather than just stripping and sanding. There's still some goop to get off right at the front of the cockpit under the foredeck, but we're nearly there.
Anyway, most of the ribs are broken on the stbd side and as mentioned before have bee repaired very badly. So it was in with the chisel to chop out the rubbish (only 2 at a time so as not to lose too much strength during the repair with little old me running around in the cockpit)...
...and in with new pieces, a few laminated layers of 5mm ply shaped and bent to fit, and epoxied in place. It's the two in the middle of the pic...
Lastly, some fillets to the aft cockpit, there will be lots of these giving extra strength on all the joins. Experience from wooden Fireballs shows areas like this are under quite a bit of load, especially when the driver gets overexcited putting the kite up (halyard goes back here). Also the side "tanks" were not joined to the aft bulkhead...sorted now.
Paddingtonbear
New member
This has got what was going to be a bad week off to a flying start. Thank you, surely there is a possible article there.
Iain C
Active member
Ah, but an article needs a finished boat that floats, and we are still a way off that!
Although we could perhaps have a forum "place your bets" on which floats first...this F15 or a certain bright green Osprey??
Although we could perhaps have a forum "place your bets" on which floats first...this F15 or a certain bright green Osprey??
Iain C
Active member
Two more broken ribs cut out tonight...including the worst which had to be almost totally removed...
...and replaced. Parcel tape around the upper hog so the epoxy doesn't stick to it!
...and replaced. Parcel tape around the upper hog so the epoxy doesn't stick to it!
Lakesailor
New member
You've still got a long way to go. But it could be a nail-biter.Although we could perhaps have a forum "place your bets" on which floats first...this F15 or a certain bright green Osprey??
Searush
New member
I'm loving this thread thank you.
Like Jerome K Jerome, "I love work, I can stand & watch it all day."
Like Jerome K Jerome, "I love work, I can stand & watch it all day."
Iain C
Active member
Bugger bugger drat and arse, the epoxy hasn't quite gone off on the ribs.
It's still just ever so slightly tacky/rubbery. Thick bits round the top of the old mix pot break off, thin stuff just stays in the bottom without cracking. It's ECF's own brand stuff...they've changed the formulation and now it's GOT to be mixed by weight, 100:17, despite me initially querying this and being given a precise mix volume of 100:19 to work with. I've been using epoxy for years and never had this (apart from water contamination once) and I always draw off the epoxy in syringes to be precise, never just mix in the pot. On the flip side they are sending me some digital scales FOC.
It may slowly go off a bit more on the post-cure, (I'm fairly sure it's better this evening than it was first thing) if not I'll get some serious heat on it and gently pull the ribs back out and redo them.
So a word of warning, the ECF stuff seems to be hyper sensitive on the ratios...order some scales when ordering resin. Never had this issue with their excellent old 5:2 stuff!
Bit more varnish stripping tonight and pulled out some rubbish old trim pieces on the fwd mast gate bulkheads that were very visible but had seen better days.
It's still just ever so slightly tacky/rubbery. Thick bits round the top of the old mix pot break off, thin stuff just stays in the bottom without cracking. It's ECF's own brand stuff...they've changed the formulation and now it's GOT to be mixed by weight, 100:17, despite me initially querying this and being given a precise mix volume of 100:19 to work with. I've been using epoxy for years and never had this (apart from water contamination once) and I always draw off the epoxy in syringes to be precise, never just mix in the pot. On the flip side they are sending me some digital scales FOC.
It may slowly go off a bit more on the post-cure, (I'm fairly sure it's better this evening than it was first thing) if not I'll get some serious heat on it and gently pull the ribs back out and redo them.
So a word of warning, the ECF stuff seems to be hyper sensitive on the ratios...order some scales when ordering resin. Never had this issue with their excellent old 5:2 stuff!
Bit more varnish stripping tonight and pulled out some rubbish old trim pieces on the fwd mast gate bulkheads that were very visible but had seen better days.
Iain C
Active member
Bit of an update...
Tried the scales, to the gram, but the epoxy still didn't go off. Very odd. Finally managed to persuade it with a heatgun (fan heater not hot enough). ECF swapped it for some SP106, no problems since.
The forward rib, against the bulkhead, was also broken. And it had rot under it. Bugger. Dug it all out and epoxied the new rib in, with 6 layers of glass tape to add a bit of substance in the area around the hog. I am filletting all around the ribs and sanding them smooth...long job but nearly done.
I decided that the stern deck would definitely need replacing, and also to fit a different rudder. The early 15s had vertical rudder posts and fairly unbalanced rudders, which create weather helm, and also drive the nose down on the bearaway when heeled. The later type has an angeled shaft, also set further back in the blade, which helps reduce this. eBay came up with a rudder for £50...seemed fair enough. Here are the two laid over each other...big difference in angles.
Finally it was in with the chisel and time to remove the aft deck. I can now get to the tube...will remove the old one and glass in the new one. I have the ply to redeck the stern, however I'm concerned it's far too red and the colour match when varnished will be awful. I'm using some good quality WBA exterior stuff...epoxied up it will be fine, but I might go on the hunt for a paler shade at the weekend. I have also sourced the Sapele for the gunwales...it's going to look good.
I ordered the new rudder tube and new bearings from Ovington Boats...the tube will go roughly here (top further forward than the old one, and bottom further back) and I will swap them over and seal up the holes this weekend. The new shaft and tube are longer and thicker than the old one...
Onwards...
Tried the scales, to the gram, but the epoxy still didn't go off. Very odd. Finally managed to persuade it with a heatgun (fan heater not hot enough). ECF swapped it for some SP106, no problems since.
The forward rib, against the bulkhead, was also broken. And it had rot under it. Bugger. Dug it all out and epoxied the new rib in, with 6 layers of glass tape to add a bit of substance in the area around the hog. I am filletting all around the ribs and sanding them smooth...long job but nearly done.
I decided that the stern deck would definitely need replacing, and also to fit a different rudder. The early 15s had vertical rudder posts and fairly unbalanced rudders, which create weather helm, and also drive the nose down on the bearaway when heeled. The later type has an angeled shaft, also set further back in the blade, which helps reduce this. eBay came up with a rudder for £50...seemed fair enough. Here are the two laid over each other...big difference in angles.
Finally it was in with the chisel and time to remove the aft deck. I can now get to the tube...will remove the old one and glass in the new one. I have the ply to redeck the stern, however I'm concerned it's far too red and the colour match when varnished will be awful. I'm using some good quality WBA exterior stuff...epoxied up it will be fine, but I might go on the hunt for a paler shade at the weekend. I have also sourced the Sapele for the gunwales...it's going to look good.
I ordered the new rudder tube and new bearings from Ovington Boats...the tube will go roughly here (top further forward than the old one, and bottom further back) and I will swap them over and seal up the holes this weekend. The new shaft and tube are longer and thicker than the old one...
Onwards...
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oldbilbo
...
I have over 400 pieces of ~4mm furniture-fine-grade selected ply, about 1200mm by 450mm/500mm various offcuts I don't know what to do with. Pale. Flocoated, they may be perfect.... for some project or other
Speak to me.
Iain C
Active member
That's very kind...(again...your other generosity will be revealed when fitted in all their glory!) however each half is about 1550x750, and also 6mm. If I can find some locally, great, but if I'm struggling I will let you know. TBH even the stuff I used for the headlining boards on the Sabre will be fine...this other stuff really is quite red!
