Sara Sutcliffe appointed CEO of the RYA

[dunedin]

Up to a point, Lord Copper. AFAIK, and I may be a little out of date, all this work by the RYA is done by one (very pleasant, very capable) man, which means that he automatically works with the dedicated amateurs, or shall we say RATS, at the CA, and they divvy up tasks between them, which is a vast improvement on the situation a few decades ago (but within my memory) when the RYA wanted nothing to do with the upstarts at the CA.

But my point was that Sara Sutcliffe chose to devote her opening statement on taking up the role, to the Olympic team. We’ve just had an Olympics, jolly well done for the handful of professional dinghy sailors who can look forward to glittering futures in the professional circuit, but the next one is nearly four years away. Does nothing else matter?

The RYA Cruising team has a small number of professional staff, as does External Affairs.

 

[Sandy]

Bah!

Would you disparage a Picasso because it was difficult to un-paint!!???

?

I've no idea as I don't 'do' art.

I can only think of one painting that has made me go wow! Christ of Saint John of the Cross at the Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum. Which was a bit of a surprise as I am a devout atheist.

​

Apart from hiding the cracks in the wall art, in my mind, has no function. There were many interesting conversations amongst university chums about my view of art, especially the abstract stuff. I came to the conclusion that I'm wired a bit different to most. More a Dr Spock than a James T Kirk.

Thankfully, we are all different and compliment each other.

 

[Kukri]

I don’t “do” music but I seldom miss an art gallery. Takes all sorts!

 

[mjcoon]

Thankfully, we are all different and compliment (sic) each other.

If only that were true!

 

[newtothis]

If only that were true!

I'm sure it is, at least in principal .

 

[Kukri]

I think we have come to the end of this subject, and nobody has been horrid to anyone!

It can be done!?

 

[Mark-1]

I think we have come to the end of this subject, and nobody has been horrid to anyone!

It can be done!?

I dunno, I felt there were some harsh words on mooring line individuality. (A topic I suddenly find very dear to me.) ?

 

[scottie]

I learned how to sail growing up in a boat owning family and work in boats in the engineering side
racing was passage sailing and latterly round the buoys in cruising handicap classes and west highland week
due to family circumstances I dropped out for a few years but was drawn back in as crew on a cruising boat a home finished eytheme that got slower every summer as more was added engine etc and continued with the same syndicate for over 40 years to allow me to steer whilst I joined the club that organised most of the racing and we as a crew did OOD as required.
Due to my work I was involved and joined the RYA separately as sponsoring and participating some RYA powerboat events mainly boat handling and with support from Volvo provided support with their rib for clyde regattas and obtained PB2 followed by a mark layer qualification And was in the first course of engine maintenance instructors
but never was taught any thing regarding dinghies after the being told “ first we will capsize” a perfectly wise suggestion that by that time I had spent my life avoiding


I feel that from back ground I have fair idea of the different aspects of the RYA and would support it but it’s not perfect and can be seen a different things to different people and the more involved you are the more of the iceberg you see but also you find out that within the iceberg there are different areas of interest getting more of the attention .for example when the olympic were coming up a push was put on to train mark layers but as the sailing was in south coast waters that was the only place that they were interested in and anything involving bigger boats in deeper waters just did not exist ok for what they wanted but the should have been up front about it and why hold the training on the Clyde ?
When I did the engine maintenance course there were two types of attendees the ones who knew about what they were being asked to teach
And those who wanted the badge and new to read and regurgitate the syllabus but as I recall everyone passed which was a bit like the VHF course

 

[stuartwineberg]

It isn’t often I don’t agree with the honourable member but on this, I’m afraid, I do ?

RYA and CA are different but complimentary.

I’ve just looked on the CA website and membership is “from only £137”. RYA is £47.

RYA covers the whole spectrum of floating water sports. On the world stage, UK sailing punches well above its weight and events like the Olympics are very high profile so I believe that credit to RYA is due.

In another post, you have referred to the YM scheme. What’s wrong with it? It probably isn’t perfect but I believe it to be in (relatively) safe hands. I don’t agree with all that RYA does and I often give feedback. I’m usually ignored but, hey, I’m not one in 17.4m so I’m used to it ?

My view of major changes within RYA is best summarised by “be careful what you wish for”. By all means lobby to tinker but it ain’t broke so doesn’t need fixing.

Would you like me to send you a rejoining form ?

Have to admit £137 membership did make me pause for thought. Perhaps members of the CA could tell us what they get. Might be good value but I can’t tell from the website

 

[Kukri]

Have to admit £137 membership did make me pause for thought. Perhaps members of the CA could tell us what they get. Might be good value but I can’t tell from the website

1. Discount off the almanac
2. The CA clubhouse is about the cheapest place to stay in London, if you don’t live there, and if you do there are good lectures and the library
3. If you don’t live in London there are regional lectures
4. Very good cruise planning facilities.
5. HLRs in most places
6. Protection of the interest of cruising yachts
7. er…

 

[Bajansailor]

In France however, they progress the kids through boats like J80s, which is why I suspect you see lots of teenagers in small micro-cuppers/quarter tonners, 6.5s etc. One thing I am always struck by in Brittany is the number of younger people cruising about in sub-30ft boats with little outboards on the back, clearly sailing on a shoestring. You just don't see that in the UK.

And they are not just pottering around in Brittany - many of these young people cover impressive distances, often ending up in the Caribbean (and even further afield) in their little boats (and some might just have a sculling oar, never mind an outboard).

Or the other way around - one young French lad I sailed transatlantic with 27 years ago subsequently crewed for a mate of his halfway around the world on an S & S 34; when they reached New Zealand Matthieu stayed and worked for a while as a boatbuilder, before buying a wreck of an S & S 24 (I hadn't heard of them either, but they are lovely wee boats) which he re-built and then sailed singlehanded to the Caribbean via the Indian Ocean and South Africa.
Including a non stop 47 day passage from Cape Town (or possibly St Helena) to Barbados.

Edit - after spending a year or so in the Caribbean, Matthieu set sail for France in the same wee S & S 24, and again singlehanded, and arrived quietly back in Douarnenez in Brittany without much fan fare - nothing had broken or gone wrong, same as his previous passage up the South Atlantic.

 

[Tomahawk]

The RYA have seriously let down their core membership over the bug huggers increasingly intensive demands. In particular they failed to completely discredit s certwin individual who has been leading a one man hobby horse to ban anchoring in Studland Bay. It will come back to bite boat owners over the next few years as the enviro lobby demand more and more controls in favour of their hobby.

 

[LittleSister]

While I appreciate the work that the RYA has done in staving off excessive regulation, providing support to sailing clubs, and in devising and running what seems to me an admirable cruising training scheme, I do feel my interests and type of boating are largely overlooked by the RYA.

I was a member for a few years, but the magazine and marketing guff they sent me was of negligible interest, and I soon got in the habit of shifting it straight from the doormat into the waste bin, and eventually cancelled my membership. My membership has subsequently been temporarily revived a couple of times though the RYA's ICC offer/scam, but generally the RYA is not important enough to me (and vice versa) to warrant the call on my limited funds.

I was taught to sail neither by the RYA nor by my family. Partly I was shown some basics by a friend who sailed, but largely I was self-taught. Only later did I take a dinghy course (can't remember the name), shorebased Yachtmaster Theory and Coastal Skipper practical course, to broaden and deepen my pre-existing knowledge and skills (which they certainly did, though I'm still learning to this day, of course).

I have taught several people to sail on my own boat, one of whom went on to do RYA courses. Like an earlier poster I used to do sailing club Race Officer and Safety Boat duties before formal training was compulsory, but would not do it now because of the cost. I recognise that the RYA, in introducing such requirements, was in part reacting to societal changes, but it still contributes to taking sailing yet further and further into cost and regimentation that is not to my taste, and seems inimical to the challenge, self-reliance and adventure that is, for me, the essence of the pastime of 'simply messing about in boats'.

having a body like the RYA means that there is a standard so that when somebody comes onboard there is a common understanding of how to do an OXO

Strange. When I did Coastal Skipper it was repeatedly emphasised there was always more than one way to skin a cat, there was no required 'RYA method' for anything, and that it was a wise skipper who knew a range of techniques to select from as appropriate to the varying situations they might encounter. What mattered was what worked.

Quite how one cleated off a rope, provided it held fast and didn't jam, would be considered a matter of taste. I have sailed with a variety of skippers, each with their own pet method of doing this (with which I was happy to comply for the duration), and a variety of 'correct' methods can be found taught in books and videos.

 

[oldgit]

If you want feel unloved by the RYA buy a motorboat. However its a bit like keeping to the left on the road, it exists for benefit of everyone and things would be a tad worse if it were not there. ?

RYA magazine ran a feature to entice souls looking to spend surplus cash into boating , easy to get into motorboating it explained, the RYA could help.
This involved a boat probably costing 1/2 million quid being kept in probably the most expensive part of the UK boaty world and no doubt in one of the most expensive marinas in that area.
The happy young couple were pictured with their bright shiney (remarkably clean and well behaved offspring) aboard their new purchase ,all dressed in matching technical gear, one suspects just out of shot on the quay will be matched pair of Rover SVAutobiography Ultimates .
Welcome to the world of motorboating. ?
Now await their guide to unblocking the electric toilet with interest,no doubt with somebody dressed in Puce Dubarry and very very waterproof £300.00 deck shoes, still wearing his "Oyster."

 

[dunedin]

If you want feel unloved by the RYA buy a motorboat. However its a bit like keeping to the left on the road, it exists for your benefit of all and things would be a lot worse if it were not there. ?

Except that by far the biggest benefiters from the RYA campaigning is probably large motor boat users, who burn large quantities of red diesel. Against the odds, they have managed to reverse the plans to remove red diesel and the 60/40 split, saving many power boat users a huge amount of cash. What did the Romans do for me …. Etc

 

[oldgit]

Except that by far the biggest benefiters from the RYA campaigning is probably large motor boat users, who burn large quantities of red diesel. Against the odds, they have managed to reverse the plans to remove red diesel and the 60/40 split, saving many power boat users a huge amount of cash. What did the Romans do for me …. Etc

Total tosh..........how many votes would go if HMG did away with the derogation.
Money talks....very loudly
Many of my boat club members grew up with the subsidised fuel really meant for farmers and commercial vessels and many bought boats with big engines based on this.
There would be hell to pay, among some of the HMGs natural base voters if they had to pay , in their hobby boats, the tax rates paid by those who need diesel to actually get to work and earn a living .

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted. already said

 

[dgadee]

No, because the RYA are necessary in terms of certificating instructors for 10 year olds in toppers etc. And ensuring that those instructors can handle their ribs, have first aid qualifications etc to make sure that kids are introduced to the water in the most positive, and safest, way possible.

I don't think we should forget that learning to sail is not like learning to play football, where you can just start kicking a ball. The job of ensuring a training pathway for juniors is safe and engaging is very important.

Everyone on this board thinks in terms of families sailing their yachts - and why they would be bothered about the RYA, but forgets the huge amount of junior "learn to sail" activities that take place every year under the RYA's supervision and responsibility.

But where do all the kids go? Why so few 20s, 30s and 40s around? Clubs and surveys all say the same - membership of the sailing community is getting older (all round Europe in fact). What has the RYA to say about that?

 

[scottie]

Two further points the RYA were unable to provide a copy of my PB2 to allow me to get my ICC some years later so had to sit it again whereby I nearly failed for answering a question regarding how I would find out the state of the tide and pointing out that we were standing on a concrete slip with less than a foot of wet concrete showing we were just after high tide
the other point being that when I did my original PB2 I had no first aid knowledge let alone certification that was sorted by having 5 minutes with some one else on the course who had

 

[Kukri]

But where do all the kids go? Why so few 20s, 30s and 40s around? Clubs and surveys all say the same - membership of the sailing community is getting older (all round Europe in fact). What has the RYA to say about that?

I think BobC in his post #48 and Bajansailor in his post #71 are likely to be right.

The French “pathway” leads into pocket racers and cruisers; ours dries up at Dinghy 5.

Maybe (I don’t know) the RYA expect teenagers to go onto “Competent Crew”, and crew for their Elders and Betters, but I know very well that I didn’t want to do that. At 19 I bought a very run down old Dragon because she had (just about) a cabin, and I could persuade my girlfriend into joining me. And we had (between the deck leaks and the need to put the sea back in its place) a wonderful time!

Crewing for older people on bigger boats held very little attraction for me, unless I thought I could really learn from them. And some of my sister’s accounts of being chased around boats by lascivious old men were, whilst amusing, quite worrying. She also bought her own boat as soon as she could.