Sara Sutcliffe appointed CEO of the RYA

[Concerto]

But where do all the kids go? Why so few 20s, 30s and 40s around? Clubs and surveys all say the same - membership of the sailing community is getting older (all round Europe in fact). What has the RYA to say about that?

It is a combination of living costs (mortgage or rent) and high berthing costs, plus raising a family, that stops many of the 20's, 30's and 40's from sailing - it did for me. By comparison mooring fees in northern France are cheap compared to most marinas anywhere in the UK, especially along the south coast. I suspect more of this age range prefer to charter in the sun a boat they could never afford to buy, let alone berth and maintain.

 

[dgadee]

It is a combination of living costs (mortgage or rent) and high berthing costs, plus raising a family, that stops many of the 20's, 30's and 40's from sailing - it did for me. By comparison mooring fees in northern France are cheap compared to most marinas anywhere in the UK, especially along the south coast. I suspect more of this age range prefer to charter in the sun a boat they could never afford to buy, let alone berth and maintain.

Bangor marina (NI) is council owned (but run by a commercial concern). It is run very well, but it is half empty most of the time it seems to me. I think a local council should be seeking to encourage locals to buy boats and keep them there - at a reasonable cost.

 

[TLouth7]

The French “pathway” leads into pocket racers and cruisers; ours dries up at Dinghy 5.

In my experience, the next step was to become an assistant and then full dinghy instructor. One major thing that the RYA gets right in this respect is that you can become a DI aged 16. That is soon enough after completing the various stages that you don't have time to fall out of the hobby, and how many other opportunities do 16 year olds have to hold that level of responsibility?

I should point out that in addition to Sunday dinghy racing and Junior Week, there is also Saturday junior training which is extremely well attended, and at least until recently there were two junior training weeks a year (run in partnership with Neptune). Many of the juniors who engage with the RYA based dinghy training also sail on yachts with their parents, so clearly those parents see value in the schemes. For one thing such organised dinghy sailing can be vastly more social than learning from your parents; a factor which should not be undervalued.

The club did try quite hard for several years to promote sailing for those aged 18 to 30, but I believe these efforts were ultimately unsuccessful and only one cohort of us really benefited. Measures included a dedicated 18-30 dinghy racing week (or long weekend?) in September, 18-30 cruises in company, and discounted membership.

My new club does better in recruiting and retaining young adults for the simple reason that total costs to keep a small (sub 30 foot) yacht at the club for a year can be well under £1000. Also because all the yachts are small a Wayfarer can keep pace and sail to many of the same destinations; this offers an even cheaper and less time demanding route in.

All that said, I agree it is disappointing when senior management of an organisation are clearly focussed on one element of that organisation's remit.

 

[Wing Mark]

There are other organisations which teach sailing, e.g. the Scouts and Sea Scouts.
The RYA puts a lot of effort, time and money into chasing Olympic medals, because it gets a lot of lottery cash for that purpose.

There are many 'sail training' organisation which focus on youth sailing other than racing, including Ocean Youth Trust, Tall Ships and all that.

A couple of clubs I know quite well have got lottery money for training boats. there is a lot going on.

As I see it, the big 'problem' is that kids (and adults!) have a hundred alternatives.

 

[Kukri]

Many of the juniors who engage with the RYA based dinghy training also sail on yachts with their parents, so clearly those parents see value in the schemes. For one thing such organised dinghy sailing can be vastly more social than learning from your parents; a factor which should not be undervalued.

This is true but it illustrates a part of the problem; we are becoming “self selecting”; my parents sailed, I sail, my children sail..

 

[capnsensible]

I suppose that any business that has an income of £21 million a year, Rtcs in 58 different countries and delivers over 250,000 courses a year really does need someone at the helm(!) who has got it all in one sock.

And can handle the flak. ??

 

[Tomahawk]

This is true but it illustrates a part of the problem; we are becoming “self selecting”; my parents sailed, I sail, my children sail..

My parents never sailed. Indeed the old man was of the gin palace mentality. I have always wanted to sail so I guess there must be some who come into the sport by themselves....... unless I am totally unique

 

[mjcoon]

My parents never sailed. ... I guess there must be some who come into the sport by themselves....... unless I am totally unique

Depends on the definition of "by themselves"! I lived in Kensington and sailed Herons (IIRC) on the Serpentine. ("Come in number 5; your time is up.") About the same time a girlfriend suggested doing a dinghy course on a Putney pond. Eventually she married another sailor that I hadn't met so maybe he was the unknown original spark; I didn't ask...

 

[Bouba]

Depends on the definition of "by themselves"! I lived in Kensington and sailed Herons (IIRC) on the Serpentine. ("Come in number 5; your time is up.") About the same time a girlfriend suggested doing a dinghy course on a Putney pond. Eventually she married another sailor that I hadn't met so maybe he was the unknown original spark; I didn't ask...

I’ve never understood that ??‍ What is it that girls see in sailors??

 

[mjcoon]

I’ve never understood that ??‍ What is it that girls see in sailors??

Unfortunately, per the song, it's just the "nice girls"...

 

[Mudisox]

One could ask how many folk are "supporting" the Olympic squad [Professional sailors], as opposed to working for the cruising group.

 

[dgadee]

I know loads ol people around 30s and 40s who are into adventurous kayaking. They see their sport as a proper adventure and go off on 'expeditions' (otherwise known as holidays). Perhaps they would think that sailing isn't an adventure sport any more and not very 'cool'. Just finished a copy I managed to get my hands on of Puleston's Blue Water Vagabond and you can see how sailing was a real adventure back in the 30s. Now it is seen as old couples off to the Med with sundowners. Maybe it's too safe. Don't really know - it never seems too safe on my boat.

 

[mjcoon]

I know loads ol people around 30s and 40s who are into adventurous kayaking. They see their sport as a proper adventure and go off on 'expeditions' (otherwise known as holidays). Perhaps they would think that sailing isn't an adventure sport any more and not very 'cool'. Just finished a copy I managed to get my hands on of Puleston's Blue Water Vagabond and you can see how sailing was a real adventure back in the 30s. Now it is seen as old couples off to the Med with sundowners. Maybe it's too safe. Don't really know - it never seems too safe on my boat.

Yes, kayakers show up on the TV in "Saving Lives at Sea" too...

 

[dgadee]

Yes, kayakers show up on the TV in "Saving Lives at Sea" too...

I remember when our local lifeboat was going to do an exercise with my kayak club. They called it off due to bad weather. Kayakers were not very happy.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

My parents never sailed. Indeed the old man was of the gin palace mentality. I have always wanted to sail so I guess there must be some who come into the sport by themselves....... unless I am totally unique

+1

 

[Tomahawk]

+1

Are you trying to say you are totally unique as well?

 

[Stemar]

Unfortunately, per the song, it's just the "nice girls"...

For a certain definition of "nice"

"(Well you know what sailors are!)"

I knew a slightly different version from the one on the internet. The chorus finished "Ship ahoy, it's a boy"

 

[ryanroberts]

The only reason I can afford to keep a boat in good nick on the south coast in my 40s (after only getting the bug in my late 30s) is because I ..spend a lot of time on her. I am pretty reasonably paid as a software engineer, though have been involved in some less than successful business ventures in the last decade and relationship breakdowns are expensive even without kids.

Bar giving out ICCs, I can't see any relevance of the RYA to me as a cruising lifestyle sort of sailor, particularly given their behaviour around Studland. I was considering joining a local yacht club, but memberships are highly expensive if you are not interested in getting on the berthing wait list.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

As far as I see it the RYA administers and sets standards for training at all levels and is the certificating body all of which is quite relevant and important to the general sailing community and that represents over 90% of the work they do for old gets messing about in boats. The rest probably comes from the legal offices be it in formulating Bills of Sale pro forma or giving free advice. So I ask the question what do people want from the RYA that is specific to the cruising man or old git in a boat to which it seems that most of us belong to or have.

 

[lustyd]

In my experience, the next step was to become an assistant and then full dinghy instructor

To me this is part of the problem, and I had a similar issue with BSAC diving. The assumption that being an instructor is the end goal causes a lot of people to simply cease their membership. To me, the purpose of learning to sail was so that I could go sailing, and the RYA don't seem to support that outcome. The purpose of learning to dive was to go diving, yet my decision not to instruct meant I was effectively not a part of the club, which meant I couldn't dive within the club, which meant I left and never returned. I don't actually mind that the RYA are a training and racing organisation, the thing that bothers me is that they are effectively preventing others from doing the necessary things to support our sport.