Sails; top quality British sails, from China???

[Sans Bateau]

I'm sure Steve Cronin will want to make a comment on this!!

What is the view of the panel on the article in Yachting Monthly, where it is exposed that many of the UK sail lofts, including big names, outsource their sail making to China and elsewhere in the far east? Or does it matter?

For me, I'd rather have a bloke come along to the boat, understand what I want and then instruct a sailmaker in his own loft of any slight variations that I might need. Looks like one of the questions I will be asking the various makers at SIBS this year, prior to my ordering new ones, is where are their sails actually made?

Or am I being old fashioned? Should I just accept that a CAD machine cutting out my sails in China with people sewing sails together for 22p an hour is OK?

 

[Judders]

If people in another country are prepared to do as good a job for less money then I don't think we should be protectionist about it. We all enjoy the benefits of our slightly ludicrous economy and the downside is the loss of basic skills. That said, if workers are being exploited then that is an entirely different matter.

What does concern me more about globalisiation, is the impact of the transport, especially as everything seems to be done by airfreight these days.

 

[AIDY]

From my experience of buying sails (momentum) from the far east, the quality and the price can't be faulted. although i agree about the service of having a chap measure for you, and deal with any problems afterwards. thankfully not had any to comment in this area.

 

[Cobra]

Had a quote for a new No 3 Genoa from a local sailmaker and also from one of the sail importers. Cost difference to me? About £80 in favour of the import...and that is with local chap giving me the price first.

Did I go back to try and get local Sailmaker to match price...Nope! Why? Very simple!

He is a local bloke well known on the East Coast. His distinctive logo is easily seen on the tack of many sails up and down the coast. If the sail is not setting properly, or there is a problem, just how enthusiastic is he going to be about popping out to sort the problem? The word "Very" springs to mind!!

It is not always down to cost, the service is so often FAR more important!

 

[MoodySabre]

[ QUOTE ]
as everything seems to be done by airfreight these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven't seen the ginormous container ships coming into Felixstowe then - a constant movement, much of it from China.

It is strange that we worry about where it comes from more if it costs a lot. You buy a pack of batteries or a beach ball for the grandchildren (as I did today) and give it no thought. Spend £1000 and the loss of local skills seems more relevant. I don't think that you can do much about it but if you want something tailor made then a local loft is likely to make sure it works for you. Getting an oriental sail recut or altered might be tricky.

All symptomatic of a huge issue yet to be confronted.

 

[Robin]

Interestingly some of the more expensive designer labels are on the China list whereas the more reasonable are still made in the UK.

We have used our local sailmaker Crusader for many years (designed, laser cut and made up in Poole) and they do everything required of them, from visiting the boat to measure to even re-fitting valeted sails so the boat would be ready to go when we returned from a business trip. We have always gone for better or high tech cloths, radial cuts, full battens and all other bells and whistles and even with the extra cost of these have found the prices acceptable and very much so compared to the designer stuff. One such designer label (a China factory user named now) made the sails that originally came with our boat and which have been replaced by BETTER ones made locally.

I have always advocated using a local sailmaker that you can get a good relationship with and knows you will become a regular rather than just another passing trade buying the best quote. We have 3 such in Poole and all have their local supporters, I'm sure there are others in other areas that are still genuinely making in the UK. Sails cost rather more than does a printed tee shirt.

 

[R32Stbrigid]

That is correct, most sails are cut and assembled in china, with the finishing work done in the UK. One exception to this is Kemps. I also like the local / friendly / service oriented attitude and can highly recommend them.

No connection etc etc .....

 

[Sans Bateau]

Yes I think I will be holding serious discussions with Kemps.

 

[AIDY]

I think i recall Hoods now work out of the same factory (maybe the wrong word) as kemps now. hood sails are not made in lymington anymore.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I've been to the Sanders (Lymington) loft often enough. Definitely folx crawling over the floor swaddled in yards of sail cloth, and not a chopstick in sight.

 

[Plan_B]

Forgetting the standards of quality and the service provided in UK or from China, one of the comments in YM was that the imports from China were cheaper - but the savings were not being passed down to the purchaser. That is not a win-win situation, and it could be classed as supplier greediness by people who don't know all the facts (like me).

DD

 

[Sans Bateau]

Yes I think that is the main point of my OP. If you go to a reputable British sail loft and buy a sail, I would expect a home grown product. If you want an import, go and look for one or a sail loft that is honest enough to tell you (Momentum for ins't).

 

[RobBrown]

I second Crusader Sails. They made up a main and stack pack/LJs for me this year & one of reasons I chose them was that the sails were made in the UK, but price still competitive, out of quite a large pool of possibles. Really friendly & helpful guys too & a great finished product.

No connections,just satisfied customer

 

[santeana]

...and to share with you the economies resulting from labour rates of 22p an hour!

For me the issues of "service and support" are more important than cost alone. I use Jeckells of Wroxham - still a family run firm after 170 years - who seem to operate as far as I'm concerned on the principle that "no trouble is too great to satisy our customer". Long may it continue, thus.

No vested interest - just a happy customer.

 

[Judders]

Just out of interest, how many loaves of bread can you buy in that locale for £0.22? It's a surprising figure to us, but what does it actually mean?

 

[Birdseye]

Well your new boat is unlikely to have been made in the UK, the electronics on it will be using far eastern components most probably assembled in China, the stainless rigging will be Korean, the aluminium for the mast most likely European, your sailing clothes will have come from China, and the car you drive to the marina will be German or French or Jap etc etc.

So why should your sails be any different? Do you want British sails that have to be adjusted after delivery or Chinese ones that work out of the packet?

The only thing that is surprsising is that you are surprised bny the article in YM

 

[Sans Bateau]

The boat is 14 years old, so yes I grant you that a lot of the components will be imported, the boat itself came from Belgium! But when it was built, Raymarine still built the instruments in Portsmouth, the ropes likely to be Marlow, etc etc.

I grant you many products, sorry most, come from the far east now, but I am surprised that many sail lofts are buying from the far east, passing off the product as UK made.

My point though, highlighted by the article is that lofts are selling 'British' sails they have had made elsewhere. If I chose to buy Chinese, I'd like to know!

After all if I buy a shirt in M&S, its likely to have 'made in xxxxx', the car I know came from Sweden, the camera from Japan, the wine from France, there is no hiding of the origin.

I don't expect to have to have a sail adjusted after I buy it, but fact is the sails are being designed here, then the CAD file emailed to China for manufacture; I would have thought that there is a greater risk of error in this than one where the production is local. Or are you telling me that you have never had anything made in China go wrong? Come on! Those sails are STILL sewn by human hand.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

You're so right, all the cheap Chinese rubbish I used to buy is still going strong today, the 6 portable DVD players until I found a company not using Chinese patent stealing peasant abusing factories were in fact working fine, it was me that was wrong!

FWIW, my boat was built in the UK, the instruments were built in the UK or Europe, except the VHF which I only found out later, I was told it was from NZ, silly me.

My sails, well, they were built in the UK and I have been nothing but pleased with them, they only returned to the loft for the complimentary clean and inspection in year one and for a UV strip and deep reef which I requested later. As this was done during the complimentary part, there was no postage, a man came to my front door and a couple of weeks later they arrived back to my front door.

They are on the telephone when I need them, they remember me when I call, they gave great help to many questions I had, before, during and after the order. This year 2 years after purchase I needed some batten ends as a couple of mine had fallen off during the winter storage, without question a full set arrived FOC a couple of days later. Would I have that service from an Asian company, I doubt I would even have a contact number never mind a human to talk to. There is no feel good factor from an on-online enquiry form or an e-mail address that never obtains a reply.

Do you suggest that going to ASIA is really going to improve things, really, I would have thought a man with your views would have been very pro British, you surprise me.

Of the many good British lofts, I will always suggest Kemps, I talked to many before placing my order, it was the family feel and the knowledge of my boat that settled it in the end, I am so glad I did.

If anyone does advocate Chinese goods, then you lose the right to complain that your pensions are not keeping up with inflation or the country is going to the dogs, because it is your fault! (IMHO).

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Also to give relevance to the original question, a loft operating this way will soon discover that using trained / experienced sail makers is costing them profit will quickly replace them with no more than a call centre, so you may as well be dealing with China, in fact, the factory making the sails will no doubt realise the call centre is defunct and aha,

online forms for sails, yippee!

 

[Twister_Ken]

I've no objection to sails made anywhere as long as:
a) they are good, and
b) I know where they're made.

What I don't like in this story is the subterfuge of companies passing them off as UK-made sails.

If I buy almost anything else, there will be a label or a stamp giving details of county of manufacture. Why not the same with sails?