sailing on windermere

[Sandgrounder]

Seajet,

I don't wish to start a fight but you have it wrong about Aquaplane if you think he doesn't know what he's on about: you're talking about sailing a cruiser racer whereas he sails a Centaur on Windermere at present - different experience! Add to this I know that he sails a trailer sailer in Scotland which is less solid.

I sail a 19 ft keelboat but prefer to sit to leward whenever posible because I get a better view of what's going on around me.

What I'm trying to get at is that your rather doctrinaire view may apply to what you do but that does not make it generally applicable: disagreement is merely disagreement not being wrong or being inexperienced.

 

[Lakesailor]

Quite. I have avoided saying that Seajet is being disingenuous but the comment about Aquaplane is based on no knowledge. I am surprised that Seajet hasn't seen Bob's posts about both his Westerly and his Copland in the past.
The fact is that whilst Seajet feels his route to sailing proficiency is the only true route, the OP asked specifically about learning to sail the boat he has in the place it is.
That, to my mind, is the best route to enjoying what he has.
It may be that once he has got confident in that he may take a few trips on some dinghies on the lake and get a feel for sailing in the raw. Which will add to his knowledge, but isn't the path to what he wants.

Aquaplane on Windermere (helming from the lee)

 

[Seajet]

Lakesailor,

I'm only slightly surprised at you..." based on no knowledge " would you care to enlighten me ?

Sandgrounder,

I often sit to leeward to observe the sails and keep a lookout. It's still an uncomfortable place to be though, so I encourage crew up to the weather side with regular look out to leeward under the foresail.

I still suggest the best way to really learn sailing ( health & mobility permitting ) is on dinghies, which give much more feedback & intuition than cruisers.

There is also the point that most boats are designed for salt water, and anyone with a feel for a boat will find her 'hard mouthed' burying the bow etc in fresh water lakes; that was the case when I've tried it, maybe some aren't sensitive to boats enough to notice.

I have no axe to grind or profit to make, just say what I have found in over 40 years of sailing dinghies & cruisers, Windermere, Conniston & Ullswater to the Solent & Cornwall...

 

[Lucky Duck]

This picture was taken of me on the leward side while sailing in a bit of a breeze, shortly afterwards we capsized

 

[A1Sailor]

That is some achievement! How did the keel fall off?

This picture was taken of me on the leward side while sailing in a bit of a breeze, shortly afterwards we capsized

 

[Lakesailor]

Lakesailor,

I'm only slightly surprised at you..." based on no knowledge " would you care to enlighten me ?

Certainly. You challenge Aquaplane to agree with you "if and when he gets any experience". You obviously have no knowledge of his past and current sailing.

Tell me that again if and when you manage to get any experience...

 

[ValleyForge]

Fantastic picture SeaJet, can almost tast the sespray.

I can't really comment on how this thread has developed other than say that all are right in their own way. Personally, I prefer to sit to leeward on 'Blue Tarka' (Piper OD, new name) as its very comfy & you can see pretty much all round except in a blow. Ditto for bigger stuff especially with twin wheels. Tiller or single wheel probably windward, but of course it depends on many things including of course a secure spot to put the coffee mug down.

To the OP, seems like you just want to know how to work the strings & blankets & stuff on what you've got, so getting a bod on board from one of the many agencies already mentioned would be money well spent.

 

[aquaplane]

Aquaplane on Windermere (helming from the lee)

Actually Mr Sailor, it's Stormy getting some own boat tuition on Windermere, sort of what the OP asked about. I'm pointing out that the genoa luff is not as it should be and she needs to bear off.

I do like to helm from the lee if I'm watching the tell tales, or sometimes it's in the shade if I'm too hot, (you will be familiar with this problem I'm sure).

 

[Lady_Stormrider]

Here I am - learning to sail a dinghy - the late 'Ruddy' - under instruction from Aquaplane.

I was learning to work with what wind I had at the time - not much.


The first person to comment about the boat being 'a bit draggy-arsed' will note I am not the mere slip I used to be.

 

[Lakesailor]

I'm pointing out that the genoa luff is not as it should be and she needs to bear off.

Bit harsh. I seem to remember you opined that the wind was up and down like a bride's nightie that weekend.

 

[claymore]

For what it's worth, the merits of learning to sail a dinghy seem mildly academic. If the OP has a cruiser, then they may as well learn to sail on that

 

[Lakesailor]

Risky opinion.

 

[webcraft]

For what it's worth, the merits of learning to sail a dinghy seem mildly academic. If the OP has a cruiser, then they may as well learn to sail on that

The opinion that you can only sail properly if you learn on dinghies is one with no foundation whatsoever. While you will learn wind awareness by trial and (often wet) error at the helm of a dinghy this learning style is best left to the young and agile.

In fact, teaching wind awareness on a cruising yacht is far easier as the boat takes longer to react, allowing the helmsman to be talked through it at a sensible pace.


- W

 

[Seajet]

The opinion that you can only sail properly if you learn on dinghies is one with no foundation whatsoever. While you will learn wind awareness by trial and (often wet) error at the helm of a dinghy this learning style is best left to the young and agile.

In fact, teaching wind awareness on a cruising yacht is far easier as the boat takes longer to react, allowing the helmsman to be talked through it at a sensible pace.


- W

Anyone who knows what they're doing can manouvre a dinghy as quickly or slowly as they like, for training; and it will teach newcomers the 'feel' of working a sailing boat correctly.

As an example, the Westerly Centaur gained an unfair reputation as a poor sailing boat, simply because a lot of owners went straight to that cruiser without learning on dinghies first and proved ham-fisted.

 

[claymore]

How can anyone old enough to have sailed that rather splendid looking Osprey possible have escaped the ravages of time well enough to remember anything?
I see she had the centre spinnaker chute - ours was offset on the port side and was the cause of much sorrow grief and woe.
What number was she?
I used to own 7-- and sailed at Morecambe in about 1970.

 

[Lakesailor]

The opinion that you can only sail properly if you learn on dinghies is one with no foundation whatsoever. While you will learn wind awareness by trial and (often wet) error at the helm of a dinghy this learning style is best left to the young and agile.

In fact, teaching wind awareness on a cruising yacht is far easier as the boat takes longer to react, allowing the helmsman to be talked through it at a sensible pace.


- W

Watch it! Serious danger of being in full agreement.

 

[Seajet]

I do maintain that as long as one is reasonably fit, a dinghy will provide better, more instinctive learning to sail.

Claymore,

the Osprey was no. 902, a Mk 2 built by Westerlies of Cornwall; best dinghy I ever sailed, far better than trendy overpowered griping things I crewed & tried owning like International 14's, where one's hairstyle and choice of sunglasses seemed a major factor in the club !

 

[Billjratt]

I'll pitch in for the dinghy apprenticeship, because it's natural from a size and financial point of view. You don't send an eight year old off in a 40 foooter do you? I remember a sense of relief moving from GP14/graduate sailing to keels as I had time to think before disaster struck. A wayfarer was too much for me single-handed on Loch Morllich.... a cold place to be at any time of year.

As for the assertion that one should be on the top side of the cockpit - NOT FOR ME - that was one of the beauties of coming out of dinghies - I always lay on the lee side, there was nowhere further to fall, no leg tension, I could see the genoa trim, and on port tack I could see who was in my danger area.
Now I've got an LHD boat, that luxury has been taken away.

A result of that last paragraph - does anyone else feel they sail on one tack more than the other? I always seem to have the wind in my left ear- I think.

 

[Lakesailor]

I really can't see this.
The OP has a largish cruiser on Windermere and wants to learn how to sail that boat.

People are suggesting he goes off and learns to sail a dinghy (which he doesn't have) and then still not know anything about his rig or systems on his yacht.

We are not looking at a plan for a lifetime of sailing here, but a way to get comfortable sailing his yacht.

 

[rotrax]

Anyone who knows what they're doing can manouvre a dinghy as quickly or slowly as they like, for training; and it will teach newcomers the 'feel' of working a sailing boat correctly.

As an example, the Westerly Centaur gained an unfair reputation as a poor sailing boat, simply because a lot of owners went straight to that cruiser without learning on dinghies first and proved ham-fisted.

The only time I got in (it was a Peco-should be on)a dinghy I capsized. One knee is screwed together and the other knackered so I was unable to dive under the boom and change sides. I came to sailing late and seem to manage our heavy long keeled cutter OK thank you. If I had wanted to do my boating in a wetsuit I might have bought a Jetski. First Mate and I learn something new every time we sail. After 3 years with our current boat we are slowly finding out how to make it work better. At our time of life a comfortable fat cruiser suits us fine.