Sailing around the world on a budget

[dansaskip]

And the price of modern below decks autohelms for 40-50 ft boats, with all the gubbins to make them so amazing can surely can’t be much cheaper, if not even a bit dearer, than a wind vane?

Let's remember the thread is about doing it on a budget.
There has been comment on autopilots versus windvane and peps have said wind vanes are expensive. Well just out of interest I have looked at the price of autoplilots. It seems that they start at around £2,000 and go up to perhaps £3,295 and I don't know if you would need to buy extras so on a par with or more expensive than a windvane system.
I'll stick with my Monitor thank you after all its only done 23,270 nautical miles without breaking down or running out of electricity

 

[doug748]

Meanwhile in other news:

Pierre-Andre Huglo leads the fleet on the run in to the finish of La Longue Route 2024:





Pierre sails an engineless Contessa 32, with hank on sails, windvane steering and a small vertical axis generator linked to a lead acid battery.

Long term inmates will recall he performed a similar circumnavigation in 2019.

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[Supertramp]

Let's remember the thread is about doing it on a budget.
There has been comment on autopilots versus windvane and peps have said wind vanes are expensive. Well just out of interest I have looked at the price of autoplilots. It seems that they start at around £2,000 and go up to perhaps £3,295 and I don't know if you would need to buy extras so on a par with or more expensive than a windvane system.
I'll stick with my Monitor thank you after all its only done 23,270 nautical miles without breaking down or running out of electricity

Much depends on where you start from.

My boat has a Lewmar Mamba drive unit mounted remote below decks and linked to a dual station Autohelm control unit. It drives a rod linkage steering system. Works like a dream. New cost would be phenomenal - the drive motor alone is over £2000 and the rod linkage/gearbox system eyewatering. But if it comes with the boat (and works) then it becomes affordable.

Hydrovanes are similar - expensive new. Unfortunately I didn't get one if those with the boat!

 

[steve yates]

If you want to circumnavigate on a budget, get a boat big enough to fit a meaningful amount of solar, and get lithium batteries and a freezer.
None of these things are fancy or expensive these days. And they will save you money in the long run.

(a single 500w solar panel is yours for about £60; lithium batteries now cost the same as lead acid but last much longer; an Alipcool or similar freezer is ~£200.)

Did you mean 50w? Or do you really have a source for 500w panels for £60, he asks hopefully

 

[Sea Change]

Let's remember the thread is about doing it on a budget.
There has been comment on autopilots versus windvane and peps have said wind vanes are expensive. Well just out of interest I have looked at the price of autoplilots. It seems that they start at around £2,000 and go up to perhaps £3,295 and I don't know if you would need to buy extras so on a par with or more expensive than a windvane system.
I'll stick with my Monitor thank you after all its only done 23,270 nautical miles without breaking down or running out of electricity

Almost everybody who has a windvane also has an electric autopilot. So when looking to cut the budget, it is generally the windvane that is the optional extra.

Fortunately we're all free to choose our own way if doing things (unless you're doing the ARC )

Perhaps the ultimate budget self steering combination would be a windvane plus a small tiller pilot for use when motoring. Although the true budget sailor might not have an engine anyway

 

[Sea Change]

Did you mean 50w? Or do you really have a source for 500w panels for £60, he asks hopefully

Ok I slightly exaggerated, these are only 430w

LONGi Solar Hi-MO 6 430WP Full Black PV Module LR5-54HTB-430M

 

[steve yates]

If you want to circumnavigate on a budget, get a boat big enough to fit a meaningful amount of solar, and get lithium batteries and a freezer.
None of these things are fancy or expensive these days. And they will save you money in the long run.

(a single 500w solar panel is yours for about £60; lithium batteries now cost the same as lead acid but last much longer; an Alipcool or similar freezer is ~£200.)

Why a freezer out of interest?

Ok I slightly exaggerated, these are only 430w

LONGi Solar Hi-MO 6 430WP Full Black PV Module LR5-54HTB-430M

No, you were right!
DMEGC Solar 500WP Full Black N-type Bifacial PV Module - DM500M10RT-B60HBB

Thats very interesting!

 

[Sea Change]

Why a freezer out of interest?

Because once you leave Europe food can be shockingly expensive, and varies in price, quality, and availability. A freezer will easily pay for itself if it saves you from having to buy meat and dairy products in places where the cost is eye watering.
It also means that when you catch a fish, you don't have to eat it all within three days.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The ARC wouldn’t ”stop you sailing” if not compliant with the equipment rules. You would just be not part of the ARC - of which, as you know, there is a huge alternative fleet of n-ARC boats crossing at a similar time.
I would agree that few in the “minimum budget” camp would choose to do the ARC. But equally it is extremely rare to find an owner who did the ARC who doesn’t recommend doing the ARC to their friends who have transatlantic aspirations. No connection other than a previous participant.

Buyer’s Stockholm Syndrome.

The ARC has a great business model and ‘sell the dream’ to a certain sort of sailor very successfully. Good luck to them. Whether it’s good value is a whole separate discussion that isn’t relevant to this thread. I think we’ve agreed that looking at ARC boats and their fit out isn’t relevant either.

 

[steve yates]

Because once you leave Europe food can be shockingly expensive, and varies in price, quality, and availability. A freezer will easily pay for itself if it saves you from having to buy meat and dairy products in places where the cost is eye watering.
It also means that when you catch a fish, you don't have to eat it all within three days.

Ok, I hadn’t thought of that!

 

[capnsensible]

Simply catch smaller fish.

 

[bergie]

Not that the solar panels are expensive, but having a big enough boat to fit them on is...

Yup, in almost every case the hardware to mount the solar panel is more expensive than the panel itself. And LiFePO4 battery prices have dropped precipitously. I think our friends recently paid less than half for their battery bank compared to ours that we got four years ago.

With a small boat you need to get somewhat creative with panel placement. We have 860W on our 31ft double-ender, and with that we can run Starlink, watermaker, etc at anchor as much as we like.

The compromise is that only 360W of that is actually fixed panels, the rest is deployable. The narrow canoe stern removes a lot of the traditional options for mounting fixed panels, and we could only fit either a small solar arch or a wind generator there.

So the majority of our solar is deployable. We have two 100W panels that sit on top of the dinghy on foredeck when under way, and directly on deck when at anchor. But these need to be stashed away when deploying or stowing the dinghy.
Similarly we have a 300W FLINsail that we can pull up the mainsail track. This one makes tons of power, but has to be stowed when winds are above 20kt. We got this when we were working remotely from anchor for the whole Baltic sailing season, but it is also really nice boost here in the Caribbean.


As an additional boost I'd love to have a deployable wind generator, but those old Ampairs seem to be few and far between.

The small boat and small budget makes for other compromises, too. We don't have a windlass at all, and haul the anchor up by hand. Similarly we don't (yet) have an outboard for our dinghy and instead row everywhere.

 

[Roberto]

...

Very nice boar Bergie

 

[DownWest]

Budget.. Friend did the transat in his 27ft wooden boat a few years back. Don't remember any self steering. There were three of them, just helmed..
'Nother friend, did Falmouth to Portimão in one go. No engine or electrics at all. 13 ton gaff ketch and it sailed itself after balancing the rig. Zero interior, he dozed on a lilo on the ballast. Nav by sextant and DR
Just depends if you are keen enough.

 

[Frank Holden]

Much depends on where you start from.

My boat has a Lewmar Mamba drive unit mounted remote below decks and linked to a dual station Autohelm control unit. It drives a rod linkage steering system. Works like a dream. New cost would be phenomenal - the drive motor alone is over £2000 and the rod linkage/gearbox system eyewatering. But if it comes with the boat (and works) then it becomes affordable.

Hydrovanes are similar - expensive new. Unfortunately I didn't get one if those with the boat!

All very good until it isn't.

I have the same kit. A/pilot drive directly under the cockpit sole. January 2016 half way from NZ to Chile boat fell sideways off a rather big lump of ocean and the aux rudder sheared. Clutch in the 30yo Lewmar drive then failed so hand steering the rest of the way. Oh joy.

Arriving in Chile ordered a new unit from Lewmar via Trafalgar (in March after old unit had been stripped and inspected).
3 month delivery from Lewmar, Finally arrived at destination in October.
What I wrote at the time to Trafalgar.

'The other news… In the past Fedex have sent stuff directo to Pto Montt, Pta Arenas or where ever and all has been simple.
This time they did what DHL does and delivered it to the Aduana in Santiago…..
Since then it has generated 26 sheets of paperwork most with $$$$$$$$ on them.
No IVA/VAT was charged but Fedex had another bite for about UKP150
The aduana just asked for another UKP20 every other day.
The customs agent… the only decent one in the bunch… took UKP150 for spending 3 months dealing with it.
Then last Wednesday when we thought it was all sorted , had paid the money, and had even sighted the box, the local Port Authority put their hand out for storage…. about UKP 300!!!!
Total UKP706

The sad thing was that a friend had been in Hampshire for a month in September and could have brought it back….. hindsight is a wonderful thing…'

New aux rudder was built in short order in Montt.

Good luck a/ getting kit from Lewmar and b/ getting it to faraway places.

 

[Supertramp]

All very good until it isn't.

I have the same kit. A/pilot drive directly under the cockpit sole. January 2016 half way from NZ to Chile boat fell sideways off a rather big lump of ocean and the aux rudder sheared. Clutch in the 30yo Lewmar drive then failed so hand steering the rest of the way. Oh joy.

Arriving in Chile ordered a new unit from Lewmar via Trafalgar (in March after old unit had been stripped and inspected).
3 month delivery from Lewmar, Finally arrived at destination in October.
What I wrote at the time to Trafalgar.

'The other news… In the past Fedex have sent stuff directo to Pto Montt, Pta Arenas or where ever and all has been simple.
This time they did what DHL does and delivered it to the Aduana in Santiago…..
Since then it has generated 26 sheets of paperwork most with $$$$$$$$ on them.
No IVA/VAT was charged but Fedex had another bite for about UKP150
The aduana just asked for another UKP20 every other day.
The customs agent… the only decent one in the bunch… took UKP150 for spending 3 months dealing with it.
Then last Wednesday when we thought it was all sorted , had paid the money, and had even sighted the box, the local Port Authority put their hand out for storage…. about UKP 300!!!!
Total UKP706

The sad thing was that a friend had been in Hampshire for a month in September and could have brought it back….. hindsight is a wonderful thing…'

New aux rudder was built in short order in Montt.

Good luck a/ getting kit from Lewmar and b/ getting it to faraway places.

Accepted and agreed.

My point was that you can acquire good kit on a budget. But your point is also right - it can fail, and getting parts to remote places is hard.

I have already had to replace a bevel box which had got water damage from a worn bilge pump sometime in the past. Lewmar were not fantastic even in the UK.

I'm not even certain that having all new is a guarantee against failure in extreme conditions. Simple, solid kit, regular maintenance and inspection, caution and luck in roughly equal measures perhaps.

Hope you are sorted now. If it was easy, Chile would be crowded.

 

[CleanOceanSailing]

The important thing is to be able to as self-sufficient as possible if you are short on budget. We'd be happy to take The Annette around the world and hopefully one day we will!

 

[BobnLesley]

Accepted and agreed.

My point was that you can acquire good kit on a budget... simple, solid kit, regular maintenance and inspection, caution and luck in roughly equal measures perhaps.

Always remember the budget cruisers mantra: If you don't fit it, then it can't break, but if it's already fitted... and working, then don't use or it'll break.

 

[Roberto]

Always remember the budget cruisers mantra: If you don't fit it, then it can't break, but if it's already fitted... and working, then don't use or it'll break.

The corollary being: the unlimited budget boat filled with all kinds of equipment spends a lot of time in port unable to move while waiting for technicians or spare parts.

 

[Frank Holden]

Because once you leave Europe food can be shockingly expensive, and varies in price, quality, and availability. A freezer will easily pay for itself if it saves you from having to buy meat and dairy products in places where the cost is eye watering.
It also means that when you catch a fish, you don't have to eat it all within three days.

I can eat well for two months without a freezer even with a Westerly 'fridge which is I believe designed to keep pommie beer warm in winter.
Simples - before sailing -
Four or five 5 litre bidones or 'jugs' of water - frozen ashore before sailing - as a bed in the fridge. Vacuum packed meat first frozen and then stowed on top of the water.
Other stuff I want to keep cool stowed on top of that. Any air space left filled with canned beer.
Job done.
Butter? Buy canned. Milk = UHT good for about 6 months. Cheese? Keeps in the fridge.

One thing I will never have on board ever again, Spam and corned dog.
Left Australia quarter of a century ago with 12 cans of Spam. Took me a decade to shift it and that was mainly on a 'serve and chuck' basis.
Then in Uruguay I thought 'hmm home of corned beef' so I bought some. Ended up trying to process that through the stray dogs of Pto Montt. Even they were not impressed.