Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Nope, the rules require renewal, the RYA decide the period.
(I'm not conceding the rest, I'm just too knackered to debate it all!)
RYA Survey To Shape Future Direction
- Thread starter RunAgroundHard
- Start date
Nope, the rules require renewal, the RYA decide the period.
(I'm not conceding the rest, I'm just too knackered to debate it all!)
ylop
Well-Known Member
i can’t find a country that issues ICCs which explicity state a duration except 5 yrs. not saying there aren’t any, but it does seem to be “the norm”. In any case the RYA is just one of a handful of bodies who issue UK ICCs on behalf of DFT, and they all use 5 yrs so I doubt the RYA picked the period.
That said I’ve charted overseas in the last 5 yrs with just a Day Skipper Practical certificate and no ICC - so perhaps the RYA isn’t the problem but the foreign country or company you are dealing with…. my day skipper of course has no expiry.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
The requirements for the short range certificate are a function of UK legislation for which the RYA offers training and certification.The VHF course and training can be done entirely on line with no support from a real person. Duration 6 to 8 hours. The formal exam for the certificate does need to be invigilated and is therefore face to face. Duration 1 hour. On line courses are £70 payable to the training centre, plus the £70 VHF exam fee payable to the RYA. Valid for life. Cheap as chips and as it is valid for life, internationally recognised, time wise, not a lot.
Whilst the RYA is not responsible for the making of the underlying legislation. I don’t know if it is a consultee in the making and updating of such legislation as it relates to the relevant standards and training?
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's true.
The only other body I can find is the BSAQ and they only issue MOBO under 10m ICCs.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
The RYA are invaluable for dinghy racers, elite racers and racers in general; phenomenally effective for professional teachers of sailing and professional boating schools.
Personally, I think they're not especially useful for cruising sailors.
Not sure, on balance, that's anti-RYA.
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st599
Well-Known Member
No it isn't. The VHF short range certificate syllabus is written by CEPT to ensure that all European countries have a common standard.
https://docdb.cept.org/download/4419
S47 of the ITU radio regulations are the governing rules.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Just beciase there's a harmonised standard doesn't mean the UK have to follow it in our own waters.
Our own government gave up policing this decades ago, mobile phones mean traffic is a fraction of what it once was. The UK could easily go down the USA route and just remove the requirement for a license all together. It's just like dog licenses - more bother than it's worth.
st599
Well-Known Member
It does, because the VHF signals travel beyond the 12 mile limit. All transmission requires international agreement. If you ignore the regulations at one frequency, then getting agreement for other frequencies is very difficult.
ylop
Well-Known Member
“I don’t think that’s true except when it is” what you just wrote. However all of the following can issue ICC’s of some sort:
IYT, RYA, BSAC, BWSF
They all appear to have essentially the same requirements and renewal periods.
Costs are not particularly transparent but certainly no obvious sign that the other providers are significantly cheaper.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
When one thinks about international treaties, that are then brought into law within individual states by national legislation, it really emphasises how little impact an organisation like the RYA can ever hope to have on the framing of the subject matter of the regulations.
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Mark-1
Well-Known Member
OK, I didn't know about BSAC so that makes you right when you said "several" and me wrong to challenge it. (And maybe IYT too and obvs they can provide ICC for vessels over 10m and sail vessels but I'm not sure they are "UK ICCs" whatever that meant and I CBA to check.)
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I've already answered this point, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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sigma38dave
Well-Known Member
I’m in it for the mooring and boatyard!
ylop
Well-Known Member
Well you should go and check! The MCA/DFT is the government dept who decides who is able to issue ICC’s to UK citizens. IYT are on that list - if it was cheaper and/or easier than RYA you’d expect them to have achieved greater market penetration, assuming of course that this “major cost” on charterers was as material as you imply.
However the point is there are 4 organisations issuing ICCs on behalf of the UK gov. Are you still sure in your assertion that the decision to make the renewal period 5 yrs was the RYA’s?
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Sure? It's my gut feel, just as your view the other way is your gut feel. However, the legislation requires renewal and doesn't mention a time scale, so someone somewhere has gold plated that to be 5 years. Looking at the groups involved the RYA look the most influential and the one with most to gain. I can't imaging Scuba Divers were thinking 'Great, more red tape around something peripheral to what we do' so I'd guess they were arguing for a much longer period.
Of course, even if the RYA didn't advocate that period they certainly didn't prevent it, so they didn't help the Cruising Yottie in this case.
I'll try to make that my last word on ICC's in this thread - everyone has already said everything they have to say we're just repeating ourselves, anyone who wants that can just read the thread from the start again.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Phone calls also go beyond international borders.
ylop
Well-Known Member
And have international standards to prevent them interfering with other systems.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
So do VHF radios. No international standards on what you communicate.
RobbieW
Well-Known Member
The difference being, clearly, that radio comms are one to many, phone comms are one to one
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Point me to the international communication standards. And get the Greeks to stop transmitting terrible Muzak over Channel 16. (Spelling corrector!)
