? RYA Questionnaire On Boating In The EU 27 (esp the 90/180 rule).?

[25931]

Gib is well off your route.

Another alternative would be to get Portuguese residency before the end of this year. You would have to visit Portugal but might find it easier to get Portuguese rather than Spanish residency.

As an EU resident, your itinerary could be cross Biscay in June but you could spend time in France if you wished. Down the Spanish Coast into Portugal, where you would have right of continuous residency. Depart Portugal late Nov or early Dec for the Canaries, using the rest of your Schengen 90 day entitlement, before heading off across the Pond in late Dec. This could be fine tuned as you wish.

As your residency would last 5 years (2025), it could be useful for your return.

I am aware of another boat that has a similar plan and they have provisionally booked a berth in a marina that could be amended or cancelled so they have a contract to take to the camara.

SEF are currently taking over the responsibility for issuing temporary (5 year) residency but understand they are snowed under in Faro so you might find it easier to go to a municipality (Louie, Portiamao, Lagos etc) that is still on the old camara based system.

Please let’s us know your decision and how you get on.

There is a potential problem if you do not maintain some form of residence.

 

[st599]

The majority of UK boat owners do not sail out of the UK and of those that do, the majority go for a short time and stay fairly local. Most of these people will not be affected by Schengen

I think the changes to entry and exit point rules are far more problematic than Schengen time rules. I also skipper for a charity that runs multi-week holidays for families, but as we will no longer be able to undertake a skipper change in France, that's looking like it will be off too.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

No passport check recently coming into portugal from amsterdam, or out and back to berlin - no passport check. CDG from memory the same, walk on and off the plane/airport.

How did they check your ID getting on the plane? ... I have a friend who is a Lufthansa employee and she pointed me to this ....

Transferring passenger and passport data for certain countries
Airlines are obliged to transfer additional passenger and passport data to some authorities in the destination country. Passenger data is transferred on the day of departure. Correct and complete information saves you any inconvenience at your destination airport. Therefore your data will be collected either when you make your reservation or at check-in at the latest.

Entry requirements

I guess because due to FoM you cannot be refused entry to other EU countries except under exceptional circumstances, many airports don't bother with the checks and the countries rely on the carriers providing the data.

 

[RobbieW]

As the OP, I would suggest that the vast majority who go overseas don't even have boats.

Whilst true, your OP refers to an RYA survey for cruising sailors so I take that to be be the target audience against which numbers are measured

 

[GHA]

How did they check your ID getting on the plane? ... I have a friend who is a Lufthansa employee and she pointed me to this ....

Prob a ID box on the online checkin. Which would be wrong as leaving on a uk passport and entering on an irish passport. From Japan recently a briefest glance at a passport changing in Amsterdam then just walk out the door in Lisbon.

So lufthansa have to send passenger data to some authorities in certain countries - doesn't mean much without knowing which countries..

So seems you can just get on a plane in europe and fly into a country with no passport details taken.

 

[nortada]

Depends, if you arrive from a euro airport then there's usually no passport control. From UK I'll usually use Irish passport to enter. Though can't see how they can log people in the country (like Portugal) when you can come in and out so easy on a plane train or automobile without even getting a passport out of the bag.

If you arrive at Faro from an EU country you always go through passport control.

Okay, that's our plans right royally ****ed then. Thanks Brexit.

No passport check recently coming into portugal from amsterdam, or out and back to berlin - no passport check. CDG from memory the same, walk on and off the plane/airport.

So you didn't have to go through passport control? How did they know you were an EU resident?

 

[GHA]

If you arrive at Faro from an EU country you always go through passport control.



So you didn't have to go through passport control? How did they know you were an EU resident?

I've walked straight out of Faro before from Berlin, no passport control either end. Isn't that why they built the 2nd set of gates which does have passport booths both ways- for UK visitors?
Same in Lisboa, walked straight out the door, not a glance at a passport.

 

[nortada]

Whilst true, your OP refers to an RYA survey for cruising sailors so I take that to be be the target audience against which numbers are measured

Would venture that very few RYA members take lengthy overseas voyages, travelling through a number of EU countries for longer than 90 days and the majority of those that do have taken the steps available to continue their nomadic life.

I think this very small sample could be a weakness in the RYA questionnaire. Must will comment with little or no experience or real knowledge to give a distorted view point.

This brings me to request, as the OP my aim was to highlight the coming RYA initiative so rather than drift into other areas can we stay focused on the survey, which we have yet to have sight of?

 

[nortada]

I've walked straight out of Faro before from Berlin, no passport control either end. Isn't that why they built the 2nd set of gates which does have passport booths both ways- for UK visitors?
Same in Lisboa, walked straight out the door, not a glance at a passport.

Well I have been flying back for many years and have always had to go through passport control.

Where is this gate that bi-passes entry control, it would be very useful when I am hurrying for a train?

Even more useful after 31/12/20 as people will be able to enter the Schengen Zone with out being checked in.

Sorry, I am drifting; the very thing I am trying to avoid.

 

[GHA]

Well I have been flying back for many years and have always had to go through passport control.

Where is this gate that bi-passes entry control, it would be very useful when I am hurrying for a train?

Even more useful after 31/12/20 as people will be able to enter the Schengen Zone with out being checked in.

Sorry, I am drifting; the very thing I am trying to avoid.

There are 2 'terminals', depending where you fly to the gates will be A of B, 2 sets of stairs and different airside areas. UK flights always (presumably) go through passport control.

 

[greeny]

I think some confusion is setting in.
In my experience at Faro, if you are flying in or out to/from a schengen country you are in a different part of the terminal. No passport control as such just ID checking to get on the plane. When I come into that part having flown from Germany I just walk straight through with everyone else. no checks at all.
If I am flying to/ from UK a different part of the terminal is used and of course there is passport control required in both directions.

 

[nortada]

Bit confused.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Prob a ID box on the online checkin. Which would be wrong as leaving on a uk passport and entering on an irish passport. From Japan recently a briefest glance at a passport changing in Amsterdam then just walk out the door in Lisbon.

So lufthansa have to send passenger data to some authorities in certain countries - doesn't mean much without knowing which countries..

So seems you can just get on a plane in europe and fly into a country with no passport details taken.

My German passport application required that I entered the details of my UK passport and the two documents are linked in a database somewhere. My assumption is that the documents are linked and the authorities could find out quite quickly that both documents belong to the same individual. UK passport applications also record the data of passports you hold from other countries. (Section 3 of the UK Passport Application)

I asked my friend what happens about 3rd country citizens ... she said

The carriers are responsible for the legality of delivering you to your destination and you will be vetted by the airline when your travel document info is submitted ... if you are flagged (e.g. as a third country national who has overstayed) you will be refused travel and may be picked up at check-in by immigration officers - even on internal Schengen flights.

At the moment, U.K. citizens are EU citizens so there is no possibility of an overstay, you'd only be flagged if you were wanted for something serious.

As of January 2021 - assuming no FoM deal is reached, it's going to be ETIAS for UK citizens, just like Americans, Australians etc.

Here are a few of the interesting bits ....

Taking a trip from the U.S. to many European countries can be as easy as: search, book, fly. But in the future, the process will require an added step called the European Travel Information and Authorization System, or ETIAS.

....

Essentially the ETIAS system will pre-approve travelers to enter Europe, before they actually arrive on the continent. A background check will be run for each applicant to make sure that they don’t present any security concerns.

The system will also keep track of travelers as they move throughout the Schengen Zone, as a continued effort to determine any risks.

....

You will be required to submit an ETIAS application for any travel planned within the Schengen Zone after January 2021.

.....

It is the responsibility of the traveler to make sure that they have all of the visas and authorizations required to enter their destination. While AirHelp is there to help you seek compensation when your travel plans are disrupted, you will not be eligible for anything if you are denied boarding for something that’s your own fault — such as not having your ETIAS.

.....

There is only one official document needed to submit your ETIAS application: a valid passport. There may be certain features required though. For example, your passport must be machine readable, include a digital photograph, and in certain cases have an electronic chip.

.....

Each applicant’s information will be run through several databases and watchlists from agencies such as Europol, Schengen Information System (SIS), Visa Information System (VIS) and more. The ETIAS will also factor in whether applicants have recently been to any conflict zones, been deported or rejected from another country, along with any criminal records.
If the applicant is flagged by any of these systems, the information provided is deemed fraudulent, or security concerns arise, the application can be rejected. If you receive a notification that your application is not approved, you will also receive justification as to why.

.....

Once your ETIAS application is approved it’s valid for 3 years of travel. During that time you’ll be allowed an unlimited number of visits to Schengen member states. Each visit can not exceed 90 days within a 180-day period.

Taken from a US site given to me by an american friend resident in Germany.

Everything You Need to Know About ETIAS - AirHelp

 

[nortada]

I think some confusion is setting in.
In my experience at Faro, if you are flying in or out to/from a schengen country you are in a different part of the terminal. No passport control as such just ID checking to get on the plane. When I come into that part having flown from Germany I just walk straight through with everyone else. no checks at all.
If I am flying to/ from UK a different part of the terminal is used and of course there is passport control required in both directions.

Thanks for this - never flown in from a Schengen Zone country.

In 'our' arrival lounge there are manned gates for EU and Non-EU Residents and electronic gates, which regularly don't work.

In the past because it could be a lot quicker, I often went through the Non-EU Resident gate - probably not such a good idea after 31/12/20.

 

[nortada]

My German passport application required that I entered the details of my UK passport and the two documents are linked in a database somewhere. My assumption is that the documents are linked and the authorities could find out quite quickly that both documents belong to the same individual. UK passport applications also record the data of passports you hold from other countries. (Section 3 of the UK Passport Application)

I asked my friend what happens about 3rd country citizens ... she said

The carriers are responsible for the legality of delivering you to your destination and you will be vetted by the airline when your travel document info is submitted ... if you are flagged (e.g. as a third country national who has overstayed) you will be refused travel and may be picked up at check-in by immigration officers - even on internal Schengen flights.

At the moment, U.K. citizens are EU citizens so there is no possibility of an overstay, you'd only be flagged if you were wanted for something serious.

As of January 2021 - assuming no FoM deal is reached, it's going to be ETIAS for UK citizens, just like Americans, Australians etc.

Here are a few of the interesting bits ....



Taken from a US site given to me by an american friend resident in Germany.

Everything You Need to Know About ETIAS - AirHelp

Many thanks for an excellent post - got it now, I think.

Now back to thread, has anybody had sight of this RYA Questionnaire?

Or better still, in a new thread.

If so please stick it on here.

 

[RobbieW]

The survey is now live... Schengen Area survey launched by RYA

 

[jordanbasset]

The survey is now live... Schengen Area survey launched by RYA

Thanks, completed it, seemed simple and straight forward and covered the problems I will face next year

 

[Mistroma]

The survey is now live... Schengen Area survey launched by RYA

Thanks, completed in a couple of minutes. My wife is also going to complete the survey (VPN etc. in case RA aggregate results by IP).

No validation via email or any need to be a member of RYA. I thought that they would at least ask if you are a member.

 

[nortada]

Completed and explained our circumstances, British Passport Holder with Portuguese residency, 2 boats (sloop permanently in EU, twin diesel cruiser permanently in UK).

I provided a discrete email address (one not associated with me) and offered further information, should they wish it.

Wonder if I will hear anymore.

 

[shan]

Filled in.