? RYA Questionnaire On Boating In The EU 27 (esp the 90/180 rule).?

[LittleSister]

It is inconvenient but we will have to work with what we will no longer have.

There, fixed that for you.

 

[shan]

There, fixed that for you.

Absolutely.

 

[nortada]

I want to cross Biscay in June and then cross the Atlantic at the end of December. Standard Atlantic Circuit travel plan. Not possible with a 90/180 rule, and residency doesn't seem ideal since I would be travelling through, at a minimum, both Spain and Portugal. Suggestions?

Gib is well off your route.

Another alternative would be to get Portuguese residency before the end of this year. You would have to visit Portugal but might find it easier to get Portuguese rather than Spanish residency.

As an EU resident, your itinerary could be cross Biscay in June but you could spend time in France if you wished. Down the Spanish Coast into Portugal, where you would have right of continuous residency. Depart Portugal late Nov or early Dec for the Canaries, using the rest of your Schengen 90 day entitlement, before heading off across the Pond in late Dec. This could be fine tuned as you wish.

As your residency would last 5 years (2025), it could be useful for your return.

I am aware of another boat that has a similar plan and they have provisionally booked a berth in a marina that could be amended or cancelled so they have a contract to take to the camara.

SEF are currently taking over the responsibility for issuing temporary (5 year) residency but understand they are snowed under in Faro so you might find it easier to go to a municipality (Louie, Portiamao, Lagos etc) that is still on the old camara based system.

Please let’s us know your decision and how you get on.

 

[GHA]

A Gibralter stop over could be put on the Itinery ? It was never part of the Schengen area, but i believe they were talking about joining it, i dont know how far that has got.

Unreliable boatyard gossip!!! But heard 2nd hand a yacht radioed into a Gib marina recently and the reply was a list of paperwork requirements including VAT status, so they went to La Linea instead where everything was easy.

 

[nortada]

Unreliable boatyard gossip!!! But heard 2nd hand a yacht radioed into a Gib marina recently and the reply was a list of paperwork requirements including VAT status, so they went to La Linea instead where everything was easy.

VAT status - would they accept T2L?

 

[capnsensible]

Unreliable boatyard gossip!!! But heard 2nd hand a yacht radioed into a Gib marina recently and the reply was a list of paperwork requirements including VAT status, so they went to La Linea instead where everything was easy.

Boatyard whispers indeed. The marina paperwork is much the same for Gib and La Linea. It must have been at least ten years ago that the old Gib reporting berth closed and the paperwork was devolved to the two marina offices. In Marina Bay for sure it could be completed online and just visit the office for a signature. At LL if the queue was longer than....two, you could be there ages.

Problem now is getting a berth in Gib now that Marina Bay has been largely ripped apart.

 

[GHA]

Boatyard whispers indeed. The marina paperwork is much the same for Gib and La Linea. It must have been at least ten years ago that the old Gib reporting berth closed and the paperwork was devolved to the two marina offices. In Marina Bay for sure it could be completed online and just visit the office for a signature. At LL if the queue was longer than....two, you could be there ages.

Problem now is getting a berth in Gib now that Marina Bay has been largely ripped apart.

This was a few weeks ago. Good friend of a good friend so enough to take notice and be wary of, might well be something in it. When did you last sail in there?
Not sure of the other paperwork they wanted but proof of VAT was one of them.
La Linea just wanted boat reg and some money apparently.

 

[capnsensible]

Happy to check it out. Will contact one of our old friends in Marina Bay office to ask. It's been around three years since I last cleared into Gib but the hundreds of times I did so, no vat certificate was required. IT may have changed so I will let you know one way or the other. ?

 

[capnsensible]

Some Spanish marinas want passport details of everyone onboard plus take photocopies. I would expect that they all will in the New Year for Brits. Which was a bit of a pain when you have to do it four or five times a week, forty odd weeks of the year. I know my own passport number. ?

 

[capnsensible]

Answer from Marina office, marina bay. Ships reg, insurance, passports and a covid declaration on arrival. Can't think that Queensway a Quay would be any different. ?

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks for the replies.
A trip to either Spain or Portugal this year would be highly inconvenient to say the least. We're just back from our summer cruise and have precious few holidays left. Then there's the cost, and the risk of getting caught in Covid restrictions. Oh and my wife's passport has recently expired so we can't travel until that's renewed.

Leaving the boat down there after crossing Biscay is perhaps a little more plausible, but runs into finance difficulties as we are renting out our properties to fund the trip, so in addition to the marina bill we would need to find somewhere to stay in the UK. One property is a small holiday cottage, if we could time it for off-season we might be able to squeeze in there without taking much of a financial hit, but it would be a hell of a compromise for a family of three. And we'd have sold the car etc so life back home would be pretty grim.

Detour to Gib could work- presumably it's outside Schengen, otherwise doing so would be totally pointless? And of course Casablance or Ceuta. But we're not embarking on this lifestyle so that we can sit in a marina full of ex-pats, it would feel like a very long three months.


What about applying for (preferably Spanish) residency upon arrival next year? Under No Deal Brexit will that be impossible?

 

[nortada]

Thanks for the replies.
A trip to either Spain or Portugal this year would be highly inconvenient to say the least. We're just back from our summer cruise and have precious few holidays left. Then there's the cost, and the risk of getting caught in Covid restrictions. Oh and my wife's passport has recently expired so we can't travel until that's renewed.

Leaving the boat down there after crossing Biscay is perhaps a little more plausible, but runs into finance difficulties as we are renting out our properties to fund the trip, so in addition to the marina bill we would need to find somewhere to stay in the UK. One property is a small holiday cottage, if we could time it for off-season we might be able to squeeze in there without taking much of a financial hit, but it would be a hell of a compromise for a family of three. And we'd have sold the car etc so life back home would be pretty grim.

Detour to Gib could work- presumably it's outside Schengen, otherwise doing so would be totally pointless? And of course Casablance or Ceuta. But we're not embarking on this lifestyle so that we can sit in a marina full of ex-pats, it would feel like a very long three months.

What about applying for (preferably Spanish) residency upon arrival next year? Under No Deal Brexit will that be impossible?

Given your circumstances, reckon you could have a bit of a problem as your time in EU will be limited to 90 days in 180.

Nothing to do with Deal or No Deal Brexit but after the TP has expired, without residency, you could be treated as an alien and may find it rather difficult, not to say expensive to get EU residency. Think you may have to apply to an Embassy before you arrive in the country.

Not too sure of the Schengen status of Gibraltar next year but Ceuta is Spanish so think Schengen will apply. Tangiers is an option as is Agadir but as I have never visited, not sure of the facilities in Casablanca. What is the Schengen status of The CanariesOthers will be able to advise.

Then there is Covid. From last this years lockdown, those with residency were accepted into their host country in the same way that citizens were. But EU citizens, without residency in that country, got a rather different deal.

Result, observing the extra freedoms enjoyed by Brits, who were no longer members of the EU but had Portuguese residency, many other visitors who were still EU residents (German, French, Dutch, Swiss) got Portuguese residency - rather ironic.

Unfortunately, some visitors from the US found it impossible to get residency so were somewhat stuffed - possibly an object lesson for next year.

It seems that next year Schengen could make long stay in Europe (more than 90 days), for those without EU residency rather difficult.

One option would delay your departure from the UK, to cross Biscay the latest in the year, your insurers will permit (September?) and then crack on down to North Africa. Have a few weeks there before using the balance of you 90 days in The Canaries.

You may need visas for any countries you visit but doable.

Best of luck with your adventure.

 

[greeny]

. One property is a small holiday cottage, if we could time it for off-season we might be able to squeeze in there without taking much of a financial hit, but it would be a hell of a compromise for a family of three. And we'd have sold the car etc so life back home would be pretty grim.

Detour to Gib could work- presumably it's outside Schengen, otherwise doing so would be totally pointless? And of course Casablance or Ceuta. But we're not embarking on this lifestyle so that we can sit in a marina full of ex-pats, it would feel like a very long three months.

Holiday cottage can't be much smaller than a sailing boat can it?
Most marinas are not full of expats, there is a community but not all boats are British. Gibraltar people are not all expats and foreigners have boats too.
Sounds like you may have to make some sacrifices to your ideals in the short term to realise your dream in the long term.

 

[Kelpie]

Nothing to do with Deal or No Deal Brexit

This whole thing is only arising because of No Deal. It's not a situation that either side actually wants, it's just a default because they can't reach an agreement.

What is the Schengen status of The Canaries

Pretty sure Canaries are part of it. Webby is currently hot-footing it down there in order to get residency sorted before the end of the year.

One option would delay your departure from the UK, to cross Biscay the latest in the year, your insurers will permit (September?) and then crack on down to North Africa. Have a few weeks there before using the balance of you 90 days in The Canaries.

You may need visas for any countries you visit but doable.

Best of luck with your adventure.

Thanks. Our plan is to linger in Ireland waiting on the Biscay window, so less chance of headwinds (but an extra day in the crossing, obviously). We will be 3rd party insurance so that's not a factor, on the other hand I do not want to make the crossing any harder or riskier than it needs to be so don't really want to do it too late in the year.
Maybe some combination of a late-ish crossing, and then spending a bit of time in Gib and N Africa, and a fairly early departure from the Canaries would be doable. It must be a route well trodden by boats from outside the EU already, so I may go and look up what they have to do.

Holiday cottage can't be much smaller than a sailing boat can it?

Holiday cottage is one bedroom, open plan to the living room, and one bathroom.
Boat is three separate cabins plus saloon, two heads. The floor space is smaller but it's set up much better for a family.

Most marinas are not full of expats, there is a community but not all boats are British. Gibraltar people are not all expats and foreigners have boats too.
Sounds like you may have to make some sacrifices to your ideals in the short term to realise your dream in the long term.

As if it wasn't obvious, we are doing this on a fairly tight budget. It only really works if we stay at anchor, don't fly home, and don't need either of our houses back.

 

[nortada]

Don’t think the Deal/No Deal negotiations will have any impact on 90/180 day rule.

Yes there is rumour of an up to 6 months in the EU without needing a visa but as the RYA advise this is not in the discussions. My OP in red.

 

[jordanbasset]

This whole thing is only arising because of No Deal. It's not a situation that either side actually wants, it's just a default because they can't reach an agreement.

Agree, if there was a deal that could include some form of free movement, or at least an improvement on the default 90 days in every 180. With no deal that isn't even a possibility by the very nature of it being a 'no deal'

 

[greeny]

The UK are offering EU citizens up to 6 months in UK. It may be reciprocated. Stranger things have happened before.
Reading last night on the state of the recent and upcoming negotiations it seems that there is some movement on both sides in the search for a deal. I think they both realise that crunch time is coming and they need to make progress.
Fingers crossed.
Anyway, I don't want to drift the thread too far into Brexit issues but some of your fears / concerns may be resolved by a deal of some sort. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[nortada]

The UK are offering EU citizens up to 6 months in UK. It may be reciprocated. Stranger things have happened before.
Reading last night on the state of the recent and upcoming negotiations it seems that there is some movement on both sides in the search for a deal. I think they both realise that crunch time is coming and they need to make progress.
Fingers crossed.
Anyway, I don't want to drift the thread too far into Brexit issues but some of your fears / concerns may be resolved by a deal of some sort. Fingers crossed for you.

If you read the first post on this thread you will see that the RYA comments on the possibility of 6 months visa free travel but then states that a change to the 90/180 day Schengen rule is not on the table.

Six months at a stretch in The EU would be great and solve many problems. In time it could come but I am not holding my breath.

 

[st599]

The UK are offering EU citizens up to 6 months in UK. It may be reciprocated. Stranger things have happened before.
Reading last night on the state of the recent and upcoming negotiations it seems that there is some movement on both sides in the search for a deal. I think they both realise that crunch time is coming and they need to make progress.
Fingers crossed.
Anyway, I don't want to drift the thread too far into Brexit issues but some of your fears / concerns may be resolved by a deal of some sort. Fingers crossed for you.

According to the RYA Legal team at the annual cruising conference, the EU offered 6 months visa free if the UK reciprocated, the UK said no, you can have 6 months with a visa. Far more worrying are all the extra rules that this will incur. Entry and Exit from Ports of Entry etc.

 

[Lucky Duck]

According to the RYA Legal team at the annual cruising conference, the EU offered 6 months visa free if the UK reciprocated, the UK said no, you can have 6 months with a visa. Far more worrying are all the extra rules that this will incur. Entry and Exit from Ports of Entry etc.

I suspect this will be of greater concern to the majority of the RYA's membership