RTI this Saturday

[Chiara’s slave]

This is current.

A mayday call is the international signal to notify life-threatening distress.

A mayday call is only to be used in the case of “grave and imminent danger to a vessel or persons, such as fire, sinking, man overboard etc.” A mayday call is very serious and, in many countries, anyone making a false mayday call could be prosecuted under criminal law.

However, you might be prosecuted for knowingly and mischievously calling, but not in a case where you genuinely believed in the danger, but were perhaps able to overcome it yourself before the emergency services arrived.

 

[Neeves]

On the tethers, I invariably sail double handed with SWMBO. We use 6 tethers, 2 at the forward end of the cockpit, 2 at the aft, and 2 on jackstays. The jackstays are quite short, if you fell overboard, you would not end up being towed behind the boat, but alongside the cockpit.

We follow RORC's rules; lifejackets and harnesses are used when the wind is over 25kts, at night, when alone on deck, when reefed, and when visibility is below 1 mile. Thus the wearing of safety equipment becomes wholly routine and not a major escalation as it seems to appear to others.

Being dragged along side, or even behind the yacht seems infinitely better than being left .... somewhere.

Some people don't know or disregard RORC rules they think tethers can be an inconvenience.

I'm with you.

Tethers and their points of attachment should be established such that they are not an inconvenience...and, as you suggest, used without question. The fact that RORC make a rule (or even a recommendation) should not be a point of discussion and should apply as a very strong recommendation to a cruising couple. It using tethers is a rule - then their absence should be a mechanism for protest - no exceptions.

Jonathan

 

[Mark-1]

I started following this You Tuber and mentioned him here before. Top marks for trying.

Audio goes wrong for the second half.

The photos of all the boats sailing downwind to retire matches my recollection. We were tacking through dozens (hundreds?) of boats going the other way.

 

[doris]

Being dragged along side, or even behind the yacht seems infinitely better than being left .... somewhere.

Some people don't know or disregard RORC rules they think tethers can be an inconvenience.

I'm with you.

Tethers and their points of attachment should be established such that they are not an inconvenience...and, as you suggest, used without question. The fact that RORC make a rule (or even a recommendation) should not be a point of discussion and should apply as a very strong recommendation to a cruising couple. It using tethers is a rule - then their absence should be a mechanism for protest - no exceptions.

Jonathan

When Chris Reddish went over off Lion he was clipped on, he was spotted immediately but by the time the boat was stopped and he was pulled back on board he was dead.
As Flaming said earlier it’s a personal, and tricky choice. Can one actually do all that is required on a racing yacht when tethered? Likely not. Try doing mast or foredeck!
A long tether can be seriously dangerous, sometimes.
Certainly the use of a double tether, one with a long and a short strop, is remarkably underused.

 

[Neeves]

When Chris Reddish went over off Lion he was clipped on, he was spotted immediately but by the time the boat was stopped and he was pulled back on board he was dead.
As Flaming said earlier it’s a personal, and tricky choice. Can one actually do all that is required on a racing yacht when tethered? Likely not. Try doing mast or foredeck!
A long tether can be seriously dangerous, sometimes.
Certainly the use of a double tether, one with a long and a short strop, is remarkably underused.

My own rule, personal, was that I would never ask anyone to do anything on our yacht that I would not and could not do myself. I'm light and wiry and I'm more than happy up a mast and I would teach new crew members bow and spinnaker work (which allowed other crew members opportunity to experience life at the back end of a yacht). I would not ask the heavier members to do mast work - they are better employed grinding. It is quite possible to do bow work tethered. A long tether can be dangerous - but no tether much more dangerous.

Individuals may think they know more than RORC - if its a rule I would not argue. I have this idea, obviously strange to some, that their ideas have more foundation than mine and at a coroner's inquest I'd look culpable, stupid and never forgive myself if I had blatantly disregarded a rule.

Jonathan

 

[flaming]

Just for absolute clarity, the Offshore regulations in terms of jackstay fitting, lifejacket standards, tether standards etc etc are not RORCs, they are the ORC special regs.

RORC have a code of conduct for when to use lifejackets and tethers in offshore racing, which was referenced above.

Worth noting that the NOR for the round the island race specifies that category 4 of the offshore special regulations applies. This is because it is a race designed to take place in or close to sheltered water during the hours of daylight, which is the appropriate use of cat 4.
These are those regulations.
https://d7qh6ksdplczd.cloudfront.ne...4839/OSR-Monohull-Category-4-Extract-24v4.pdf

You will note that there is no requirement in cat 4 for jackstays or even tethers. That comes into effect at Cat 3.

https://d7qh6ksdplczd.cloudfront.ne...19/OSR-Monohull-Category-3-Extract-24v4-1.pdf

You will further note that when tethers are required they are required to be a maximum of 2m. And each person is in addition required to have a 1m tether, or a multi hook tether that has a 1m part. In practice this means almost all offshore crews are using multi hook tethers. That is a change from recently, if I recall it was after the Lion incident.

In my experience of maintaining a boat at cat 4, and occasionally prepping a boat for cat 3, I find it unlikely in the extreme that even 1/3 of the cruiser fleet who do RTI are fully compliant with the cat 4 regulations.

 

[Neeves]

Historically the area in which I failed was not carrying at least one helmet (I would do now). Mast work at sea, in my experience, needs a helmet, if you need to go over the side to help an incapable MOB back on board... you need a helmet. Statistically you, or any crew member, are unlikely to need to help an incapable crew member - mast work (at sea) might still be infrequent but is more frequent, twice in 20 years.

Clipper safety gear, one for each watch

 

[flaming]

When Doris was talking about "doing mast" he didn't mean climbing it. He meant being the person who bounces halyards when sails are hoisted and helps the bowman gather in the sails when they are dropped.

 

[Mark-1]

Coincidence. We tacked up the Solent with Lion in the RTIR this Saturday.

 

[michael_w]

I didn't know about the 1m tethers. I guess I comply as my jackstay tethers have an intermediate clip. I recently all new ones as the old had sat out in the tropical sun for a couple of years.

They sold like hot cakes at a boat jumble.

 

[Gurrig]

I have been following this thread with interest and recently came across this article regarding MOB incident in Ireland MCIB Report Into Grounding of Yacht 'Jelly Baby' in Cork Harbour Highlights Failure to Follow Man Overboard Procedures. It seems to put some responsibility on to race organizers.

 

[flaming]

I have been following this thread with interest and recently came across this article regarding MOB incident in Ireland MCIB Report Into Grounding of Yacht 'Jelly Baby' in Cork Harbour Highlights Failure to Follow Man Overboard Procedures. It seems to put some responsibility on to race organizers.

Mostly that they hadn't flown Yankee, making PFDs mandatory. Which I have to say I found surprising given wind speeds of over 20 knots with higher gusts. In those circumstances I would expect yankee to be flown, and I certainly would be mandating lifejackets on my boat, especially in late season.

To me though, they miss the point entirely about clipping the bowman on for a round the cans race. That very definitely strikes me as a report written by someone who has no experience of round the cans racing.

 

[doris]

Mostly that they hadn't flown Yankee, making PFDs mandatory. Which I have to say I found surprising given wind speeds of over 20 knots with higher gusts. In those circumstances I would expect yankee to be flown, and I certainly would be mandating lifejackets on my boat, especially in late season.

To me though, they miss the point entirely about clipping the bowman on for a round the cans race. That very definitely strikes me as a report written by someone who has no experience of round the cans racing.

I agree that it’s a very average and unconstructive report.
re. Training.
Quid custodies ipsos custodes.
Maybe Flaming, or assorted from this forum, could volunteer!

 

[Never Grumble]

Just for absolute clarity, the Offshore regulations in terms of jackstay fitting, lifejacket standards, tether standards etc etc are not RORCs, they are the ORC special regs.

You will note that there is no requirement in cat 4 for jackstays or even tethers. That comes into effect at Cat 3.

https://d7qh6ksdplczd.cloudfront.ne...19/OSR-Monohull-Category-3-Extract-24v4-1.pdf

Still learning so what type of races do they usually apply Cat 3 rules to?

 

[michael_w]

Cross channel stuff is usually Cat 3, but with a Cat 2 liferaft.

 

[Mark-1]

I've just re-read the Lion report.

It struck me that the rule that requires qualifying races for the Fastnet has the perverse incentive that it can force people to go to sea in marginal (or dangerous) conditions purely to meet the Fastnet conditions.

Nothing is ever simple.

 

[dunedin]

I've just re-read the Lion report.

It struck me that the rule that requires qualifying races for the Fastnet has the perverse incentive that it can force people to go to sea in marginal (or dangerous) conditions purely to meet the Fastnet conditions.

Nothing is ever simple.

But it does mean people were testing boats and crew and learning lessons close to home, and with other boats and indeed many lifeboats close to hand to help ensure nothing went too seriously wrong. If they move on to a Fastnet there won’t be a lifeboat standing by within line of sight.

 

[Mark-1]

But it does mean people were testing boats and crew and learning lessons close to home, and with other boats and indeed many lifeboats close to hand to help ensure nothing went too seriously wrong. If they move on to a Fastnet there won’t be a lifeboat standing by within line of sight.

Yeah, it's clearly necessary.

It just has a drawback which is obvious, but that I hadn't considered.

 

[Neeves]

Forecasts, as the name suggests, are only forecasts - there is no certainty nor guarantees - and sometimes the forecasts, in hindsight, might be considered to be 'optomistic'. To be faced with arduous weather and big seas when there is no safe haven to run to is better endured if you have already experienced heavy weather prior. Cancelling inshore events when the weather is challenging simply means people would not experience heavy weather until they are on a long offshore race.

The RTI race was classed as a Cat 4 race but in the event skippers should have treated it as a Cat 2 race (with the available Cat 4 equipment). Obviously many did do this, consciously or not - as they declined to participate or withdrew. I have to assume some skippers who historically had participated in Cat 2 events would have used the equipment that might have been on board, given the conditions.

I developed a weight fetish for JoXephine, we dry sailed, which extended to Josepheline (replacing the 8mm chain with 6mm etc) but this did not mean removing the safety kit, on either yacht.

Our Cat 2 kit on JoXephine was always on board, excepting LR, and was on Josepheline (even though we never raced) but including the LR. Josepheline, 38' cat, was equipped to Cat 2 standards (with jackstays on deck and under the bridge deck). All of which we were grateful (excluding a trisail) which I decided would be too dangerous to instal and we had a massive 3rd reef instead, reducing the main sail area by 75% - handled from the confines of the cockpit.

It was surprising how often we used the 3rd reef.

Jonathan

 

[flaming]

The RTI race was classed as a Cat 4 race but in the event skippers should have treated it as a Cat 2 race (with the available Cat 4 equipment).

What do you mean by this?