Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific

[Dockhead]

I would think that it is absolutely non-sensitive, non-confidential information, what is the market price per kg of various types of steel, on the open market. I suppose a vigorous Googling would probably dredge up the information.

 

[Roaring Girl]

yes it will be a NZ one made with Bis80

Thanks very much for your reassurance, and all the time you've spent on this thread and supporting sailors.

 

[maxi77]

I would think that it is absolutely non-sensitive, non-confidential information, what is the market price per kg of various types of steel, on the open market. I suppose a vigorous Googling would probably dredge up the information.

Mind you it would not perhaps give you very much more information as the yeild in manufactured goods is not known, nor is it known if the yeild would be the same for each variant of steel. In much the same way you cannot simply cmpare the labour rate in NZ and China to get an indication of the savings because you do not know the efficiency of application of that labour.

 

[Dockhead]

Mind you it would not perhaps give you very much more information as the yeild in manufactured goods is not known, nor is it known if the yeild would be the same for each variant of steel. In much the same way you cannot simply cmpare the labour rate in NZ and China to get an indication of the savings because you do not know the efficiency of application of that labour.

It would give an order of magnitude idea.

Since the shank can't be more than 25% of the mass of the anchor, I am figuring, order of magnitude, something like:

A 25kg anchor will have perhaps 6 kilos of steel in the shank? Probably less.

If mild steel costs $600 USD per tonne, then the steel in the mild steel shank of a 25kg anchor would cost roughly $3.60. If you waste half of the material when cutting it, then say $7.20.

Let's say Bisplate costs double what mild steel costs -- a reasonable order of magnitude figure? Then the material would cost $14.40, so a difference of roughly 5 GBP.

But then of course there is the cost to work it. Bisplate will be harder to form, and I read somewhere it's harder to galvanize. I get lost there. But still -- it looks like the difference in cost to do it properly would be measured in pounds or at most a couple of tens of pounds. I think that's interesting. That should be very roughly in the ballpark, no?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

What is interesting is that on transfer of Rocna from NZ to China even Q620 does not seem to have been used and did not figure until early 2010 (and then only until the 420 stock of shanks had been used up).

Alllegedly. One side of the argument says that whilst the other side says they are made of 620 with the exception of a small batch that escaped the QA system. I have both statements in writing from both sides of the argument. To confuse even further, chickens are coming home to roost and we are getting Rocna competitors, not always openly announced as such, muddying the waters on this forum and others.

I do not know who to believe and I suspect there are a lot of other forum members who are equally confused.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

we are getting Rocna competitors, not always openly announced as such, muddying the waters on this forum and others.

I do not know who to believe and I suspect there are a lot of other forum members who are equally confused.

You seem to be convinced that there are Rocna competitors posting here anonymously. Is it just a hunch or do you have any evidence at all to support the claim? Which competitors are you talking about?

 

[GrantKing]

2 sides

Alllegedly. One side of the argument says that whilst the other side says they are made of 620 with the exception of a small batch that escaped the QA system. I have both statements in writing from both sides of the argument. To confuse even further, chickens are coming home to roost and we are getting Rocna competitors, not always openly announced as such, muddying the waters on this forum and others.

I do not know who to believe and I suspect there are a lot of other forum members who are equally confused.

Yes there are 2 sides but why is one side missing from the public arena?

They prefer to reply to postings in PM's.

The details in postings made by myself and others have not been refuted by them.

What is there to hide?

I am not telling anyone what to do, just presenting the facts and it is then up to every reader to decide what they choose to believe and how they react to that.

 

[Hoolie]

... ... ... whilst the other side says they are made of 620 with the exception of a small batch that escaped the QA system.

But not recently to my knowledge. That was when they (Bambury/Smith) thought they could get away with minimising the problems.
I think things have now moved on and pretty well all Chinese made Rocna anchors up to late 2010 are suspect.

 

[Djbangi]

Costings, I assume both Manson, with the Supreme, and Anchor Right with their Excel make a profit. I assume they are not charities. They both use Bisplate 80 and their prices in the chandlers are not that different to the Rocna. My guess is that CMP could use Bisplate 80 in China and make a profit, on the assumption that Bisplate 80 in China has a similar cost to Bisplate in Australia and NZ. One might also assume that manufacturing costs in China would be lower than either NZ or Australia, as that is the usual motivation for transferring production to China in the first place. I'm with Grant on this one, the specifics do not matter.

I'm also of the view that if Holdfast (did) or CMP can market their product as a premium product and enjoy a premium price (maybe making twice the profit of Manson or Anchor Right, because of lower labout costs) then good luck to them. The market dictates whether they will enjoy a premium price for their premium product. Just because they move to China does not bestow any right on the buying public to a lower price, even if they would like it.

There is now a question mark over premium, product. But the market will vote with its wallets.

Not associated, now or in the past (ever), with any anchor maker, steel maker manufacturer of marine products, chandler etc (enough for the conspiracy theories?).

 

[Bosun Higgs]

But not recently to my knowledge. That was when they (Bambury/Smith) thought they could get away with minimising the problems.
I think things have now moved on and pretty well all Chinese made Rocna anchors up to late 2010 are suspect.

Recently. I have an email from Rocna about a month ago insisting that my 15kg one supplied early 2010 was made from 620.

Anyway, I have given up and sent the anchor back to the supplier. Peace of mind and an inability to establish the facts beyond any doubt.

 

[Hoolie]

Sound move, and I think you're not in a minority. Must be quite worrying to those who have bought Rocnas in the last three years - not me, but I was seriously thinking of buying one. I'll wait a while

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Sound move,

Probably but I hate having to do it when I dont know who is right and who is wrong.

 

[Hoolie]

Probably but I hate having to do it when I dont know who is right and who is wrong.

But Grant King has demonstrated consistent integrity and impeccable ethics throughout all of this saga. I think he is not only due great credit for this but also our support in his continuing struggle against what seems to be a huge injustice. Supplying sub-standard anchors has to be insupportable.

 

[braehouse]

All gone quiet!

Canada Metal will be issuing Memorandum #2 within the next few days. It should cover more details of

• the replacement procedure
• progress on classification
• advances in production quality control
• plans for initiating the downstream supply chain to distributors and thence to dealers.

Canada Metal remains resolute that everything possible will be done to restore confidence in the range of anchors, and is committed to using its extensive facilities in design, production and delivery to achieve this objective.

Any update?

Thanks

Chris

 

[RocnaONE]

Spoke yesterday with NZ. They are waiting for the results of tests on various anchors for metal standards, and some info on classification. Results due within 2 days, so Memorandum delayed to include them. Sorry for the delay.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Sound move, and I think you're not in a minority. Must be quite worrying to those who have bought Rocnas in the last three years - not me, but I was seriously thinking of buying one. I'll wait a while

Hoolie - don't bother to wait, give your business to one of the honest anchor manufacturers - ie Manson, a better product (IMHO)

 

[GrantKing]

METS

Spoke yesterday with NZ. They are waiting for the results of tests on various anchors for metal standards, and some info on classification. Results due within 2 days, so Memorandum delayed to include them. Sorry for the delay.

Well I guess with only 2 weeks to go until the METS show the next spin from NZ will need to be good and certainly better than what has come from that corner so far.

The problem is that with those chickens still sitting high in the roost the believability factor is very low, perhaps they should be plucked and roasted until they told the full facts instead of porkies.

No amount of glossing over the facts, changing specs and expectations or publishing only the shiny bits will encourage support moving forward.

Previous customers only want straight answers for a change, what has been done previously needs to be righted somehow regardless of how much is changed now and the path forward with the product needs to be spelled out clearly, sooner rather than later.

 

[Shanty]

Spoke yesterday with NZ. They are waiting for the results of tests on various anchors for metal standards, and some info on classification. Results due within 2 days, so Memorandum delayed to include them. Sorry for the delay.

NZ? I thought CMP were based in Canada, with production in China. How does NZ come into this?

 

[RocnaONE]

NZ is co-ordinating the test of parts of some anchors. A number of tests are being undertaken in various parts of the world by independent test labs, I understand. I don't have the full details, but was told yesterday that the results will be available within 48 hours.

 

[evm1024]

Very good advise

Well I guess with only 2 weeks to go until the METS show the next spin from NZ will need to be good and certainly better than what has come from that corner so far.

The problem is that with those chickens still sitting high in the roost the believability factor is very low, perhaps they should be plucked and roasted until they told the full facts instead of porkies.

No amount of glossing over the facts, changing specs and expectations or publishing only the shiny bits will encourage support moving forward.

Previous customers only want straight answers for a change, what has been done previously needs to be righted somehow regardless of how much is changed now and the path forward with the product needs to be spelled out clearly, sooner rather than later.

Very good advise for those who want to take it.

Regards, Ethan