RNLI - have they gone completely mad ?

ericw

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As you are all aware, the RNLI is completely self-funding and the majority of crew are volunteers.

I live on the Blackwater where we have an inshore lifeboat with an operational area primarily within the river estuary.

Given that my house is only 1 1/2 mins. run from the Lifeboat station and given that I have a good 9000+ offshore sea miles under my belt along with various sail and power pieces of paper, fit and healthy and the fact that the station was on the look out for crew/helms I thought I'd volunteer my services.

The station director was most pleased to have an almost perfect candidate to help solve some of his staffing problems owing to very few crew being close by during the working week, as well as the fact that 2 of the most senior coxswains are due to be retired this coming summer in line with the ridiculous situation of dispensing with such crew once they reach the grand old age of 45 !

I duly attended the medical and had an eyesight test, confirming that my sight is perfect using prescription goggles/helmet visor. Imagine my surprise/disgust of all involved at the station when I recently received a letter from RNLI HQ informing me that owing to having non-perfect sight without the aid of such 'seeing' devices I could not be accepted as crew !

I and some involved at the station were just wondering what other forum members think of the decision ?

I could helm a significant sized yacht under my Commercially Endorsed Licence, I could even fly a 747 with glasses or a Rescue chopper for that matter, but helm an inshore lifeboat as a volunteer when it's proving ever more difficult to recruit ideal trainee crew ... oh no, sorry !

If I were sighted without glasses/goggles/prescription visor and had never set foot on a boat of any sort and had spent my whole life in an office, like most administrators, then that'd be fine !

Who would you rather have come to your aid in an inshore lifeboat - somebody with some good experience of the sea wearing a prescription visor or not have anything turn up because the station has lost some experienced crew ?

RNLI administrators have lost the plot !

On the 45 yr old retirement rule, why can't crew members with 40 yrs+ experience between them, but over the grand old age not just have an annual medical like airline pilots or would that involve too much admin ?

In this day and age of me, me, me and the lack of the professional boatmen to man inshore lifeboats the RNLI should be glad of somebody with my background (and that is not said in an arrogant tone at all), particularly given the resources that go into training crew from zero experience to proficient seamen.

The Administrators should go and rethink their rules before the RNLI loses any more hard to come by volunteers. I, for one, shall be donating my old £100 Offshore sub. to the Guide Dogs for the Blind ... I'll obviously have more use of this equally worthwhile charity !

Regards,

Eric the Somewhat Incredulous.

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Neraida

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I think, tho not completely sure, that its DoT regs, not RNLI. You still can't be a deck officer of a British Merchant Vessel if you JOIN the Merchant Navy with "corrected vision".



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tcm

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I agree - it does seem somewhat bonkers. After a skiing accident swmbo was taken down the swiss moutain by a powerful but oldish (55? 60?) chap on a sledge who seemed fit as a fiddle. Well, fitter than me anyway as he belted off down the hill - the fastest swmbo has ever travelled on skis.

I can imagine some highly useful people aged well over 45 (or 55 or 65) who would be a real asset - tested with a medical of course.

Dunno about the glasses rule tho as i don't wear them. Not sure how hampered one is with glasses and if in extremis it might be a prob ....

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sailbadthesinner

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is laser surgery an option?

if your goggles got washed off how hampered would you be
i am a glasses wearer and seriously blind if i lose them
i also find they get clogged up with spray salt and mist up in the cold so are a real pain

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Koeketiene

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The same applies for the RN. You can't have corrected vision when you JOIN.

When I joined the MO asked if I wore glasses, I said no. "Read this" - I did - 20/20 vision.
Should have asked me if I wore contacts. Twenty years on no-one seems to mind.

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AlexL

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This seems completely mad, You can get a commercial pilots licences with corrected vision, You can START a career as a commercial pilot with corrected vision - I would be astonished if this is a government / DoT requirement - you can fly a 747 with glasses, but not helm a boat? hmm...

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Talbot

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Laser surgery is not good for night vision and IIRC it is treated in the RN as the equivalent of a self-inflicted injury.

A prescription visor would be more appropriate. I think this regulation is absolutely barking /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

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ericw

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In response to some of the early postings the sight requirement is linked to insurance I believe as is the 45 yr age limit (linked to retinal damage claims from slamming in a large RIB !) - still can be tested by medicals though !

As far as getting glasses steamed up etc in extremis - if I can have corrected ski goggles, I can have corrected helmet visors and when the going gets really tough very few crew don't employ the visors as it's nigh on impossible to see where you are helming at 30+ knots into spray/wind, so whether the visor is corrected or not it doesn't really affect operational activities !

What this is really about is that an administrator/medical counsel has set a minimum sight requirement without glasses and if you don't pass then all else eg experience/operational problems regarding volunteer crews in small, but important stations all goes out of the window ! My sight without glasses isn't bad - I'm 2.50 in each eye (for those opticians out there) - my sight with a corrected visor would be better than the uncorrected visors of the majority of the crew. If you do an experiment with people wearing specs vs. not wearing specs. I guarantee you that the one with corrected specs vision will see far better given that sight tends to deteriorate gradually.

Ridiculous situation which will not be overcome for red tape - I just hope that one day some idiot at RNLI HQ making these sort of decisions will stop following their flowchart mentality and make acceptable exceptions to the rule.

Volunteers freely give their time and effort and, heaven forbid, sometimes, although fortunately extremely rarely, even their lives. If I were disabled I could understand it, but surely in this day and age when it's hard enough to recruit crew in the first place some exceptions must surely be worthy of passing through the admin/flowchart net ?!

At the very least I should be allowed to crew eg operate radio, assist in rescues even if I'm not allowed to helm... or is that really such a risk to those being rescued ?? !!

Maybe some administrator in his nice warm office at HQ in Poole would care to explain to the wider sailing community why such ludicrous rules exist ?

(Maybe I should consider a discrimination claim ... just kidding !)

Regards,

Eric with the White Stick and Cute Labrador !

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R32Stbrigid

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I can understand your frustration. However, as an ex RNLI volunteer (for 8 years in Offshore and "D" class boats, I would like to point out that the inshore boats are incredibly uncomfortable and you really get "beaten up" in any sort of inclement weather when at speed. I used to find that minor injuries and strains where regular things. Hence the policy of leaving it to the younger volunteers ......

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TheBoatman

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Sorry to hear that they don't want you. It's a bit daft because the Thames crews can carry on to 55 (I beleive)?

I'm not to sure where the glasses bit comes into it, because I need glasses for reading but I wouldn't envisage needing to read very much on a dark windswept night however I can see buoys at distance and even the odd boat<s>

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sailbadthesinner

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i have astigmatism and i am sure it affects my night vision

some nights i can hardly see at all unles i close one eye very tightly
but i donot think that is the astigmatism /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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Joe_Cole

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When the weather is bad I find it hard to see properly with my glasses on. With my glasses off I'm even worse!
I know that in bad conditions on a life boat I could be a liability to my crew mates.

I can understand the ruling, though I hate to admit it!

Joe

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sailbadthesinner

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no
i really find i get blinded more easily when driving these days
i donot like driving in the dark much at all
it just seems to be when there is oncoming traffic i get dazzled really easily
my optician seems to think there may be a connection or was just agreeing to humour me
when i am pissed i have great difficulty seeing sense but that is another thing

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qsiv

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I only get that with lenses - the Newtons rings are awful. Luckily the only significant night driving (the only significant driving at all!) is when we go skiing, and it's easy to plan for.

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Twister_Ken

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A Doktor writes

Herr Eric,

You must learn to come to terms wiz zis feeling of rejection. It does not mean zat you are a bad mann, nor zat ze obergruppenfuhrer of lifeboat recruitment iss a bad mann. Remember, he iss only obeying orders. My professional recommendation iss zat you find anozzer interest. Have you considered mountain rescue? Or whelk training?

My bill iss in ze post

Herr Doktor Krankenkopf

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Gunfleet

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Re: A Doktor writes

<<Have you considered mountain rescue? >>
He lives in Mersea. A trip upstairs to the lavatory qualifies you for the Essex Alpine Club.

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isha

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Many experienced fishing boat skippers and mates have discovered the same.They are ok to take command of their own boat but fail the RNLI
eyesight test to serve as lifeboat crew. That was the situation 5 plus years ago and it has not changed today.
The age thing. Having served as a coxswain for 25 years in All Weather Lifeboats, they do take a toll on your body when out for hours on end in bad weather, especially the latest 25knot Trents and Severns. Once you are over 50 and at sea in gales in steep breaking seas on passage to a search area and all as fast as the boat will go, it is hard on the body. In the 25knot Trent in such conditions you are in a sprung seat held in with a full harness yet when she flies for a second or two, I can assure you that the landing is painful. Hence the retiral age of 55. My knees are knackered!! and so is my back!!
In an inshore boat the rough ride is even more harmful to the spine.
The RNLI may seem harsh in its judgements about eyesight and age but if you have crewed with them in all conditions for many years you would see it from their angle.
I have met lifeboat crew who have had broken shoulder bones, legs and arms due to crewing in bad weather.
The RNLI much more so than a few years ago has now to comply with all employment legislation and European dictats, even for volunteer crew.
I hope this helps explain their position.
Regards
Dave

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ericw

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Hi Dave !

Appreciate your comments and yes, I know why they have these rules in place to comply with the regs., but you have to admit that the regs are pretty ridiculous, particularly when it comes down to crew numbers of a voluntary organisation. I'm fit and healthy with a wide appreciation of seamanship and my only downfall is that I need a prescription visor to correct some short sightedness ... seems slightly daft given that I'm allowed to helm/guide diving expeditions, the very same expeditions that may need to call on the services of a lifeboat. In driving rain/spray it appears that all the crew use their non-prescription visors anyway, so it hardly leaves me a burden to the rest of the crew as another poster mentioned ! Dave, I appreciate what you are saying re injuries ... but, that's got more to do with general health than eyesight and if one is happy to volunteer then I suppose it comes with the territory !

I guess such rules just get my goat a tad ... I'm prepared to endure the knocks etc. and thought my experience would be of some benefit to a station on the look out for decent crew.

In this day and age of prescription visors there really is no excuse from the RNLI Medical advisors, except to protect the organisation from the legal point of view. Shame, but true ! We'll have to wait and see what the research currently being undertaken by that prestigious establishment, Portsmouth Poly has to offer to the debate. Who knows, by this time next year they may have relaxed the rules ... by which time I'll be well into my Guide Dogs training :).

I only hope the current RNLI stance doesn't result in lives put in danger in future because of lack of volunteers, a problem which will grow over time as professional seamanship continues its unfortunate demise in this country.

Fair winds to all ..... Eric.

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ribrunt

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Hi, as a serving Helm on Atlantic 75 maybe I could shed some light:
1. Age - 45 ILB, 55 ALB as a result of physical strain as previously indicated. Currently under review for crewing and legal reasons (EU "Ageism" Directive coming down the tracks). Not surprised if it ends up with annual medicals once over the current ages. It is a tough ride - I am aware of several incidents....

2. Eyesight. Standards have been recently relaxed and now permit safety spectacles on ILB (have been allowed on ALB for a few years). Contacts not permitted. Spare spectacles must also be carried. Up to this, eyesight was the single biggest cause of failed medicals. Laser treatment is permitted. However, eyesight tests include colour blindness and other eye "abilities" similar to RN/MN standards - often the fail is on this and not the actual ability to see a distance (i.e. spectacles will not cure).

3. Less-than perfect eyesight as radio operators - on an ILB you have 2-4 crew, depending. The R/O is going to be looking for you 95% of the time, and talking 5%. Do you really want him to be not as visually acute as the others?

Unfortunately, the RNLI is being forced to address many legal/corporate issues - this is merely a fraction of the struggle. While it does rely on volunteers, all crew are treated as employees and subject to the full rigour of Health & Safety....however daft that may seem.

I sympathise with your plight - and it sounds like we are short a good crewmember. Have a word with the local Lifeboat Ops Mgr - maybe he can a) shed further light on your medical fail, and b) suggest other ways you can help? Tractor driver, Training Co-ordinator, lecturing on particular topics, etc?

Regards

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